cdherman
Posts: 175
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:22 am
Leaf Number: 22947
Location: Kansas City, Missouri

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Well, I dropped my 4th bar today. 2016 30kwh built in May or June of 2016. Now with 61,494 miles. SOH had been hovering around 66.25% for a couple weeks. Sometime below, then sometimes back over. In fact, just this AM, it was at 66.71% before work and later 66.41% after work. I had not expected the fourth bar to drop today. Or any day in next few days honestly, but there she went.

Vehicle was always garaged at home and in covered basement parking at work, so did not get some of the temp extremes that some Leaf drivers report. I believe however, that it sat fully charged in the sun from May of 2016 till September, when I bought it. About 70 QC showing on Leafspy. I drive quite a lot of miles at 70-72 mph. And Kansas City can be quite hot in the Summer. Often would see all temp bars except the top two "danger" bars lit up after a QC in Summer.

I'll call my dealer in AM and inquire about their procedure. I cannot be without the car for weeks and weeks. If they ask to keep the car, and not give me a loaner, I will be rather miffed.....
2016 SV 30kwh >> 40kwh 3/42022, 2014 Blue Prius, 2011 Silver Prius, 2005 Subaru Forester X, 1965 F-100
8.1KW GridTie Solar
Sold 2012 SL 42k miles, 10 bars, 12/15/16 for $5999 (cannot believe I did that)
Kansas City MO
User avatar
knightmb
Forum Supporter
Posts: 1550
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:41 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2021
Leaf Number: 306291
Location: Franklin, TN

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

cdherman wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:05 pm Well, I dropped my 4th bar today. 2016 30kwh built in May or June of 2016. Now with 61,494 miles. SOH had been hovering around 66.25% for a couple weeks. Sometime below, then sometimes back over. In fact, just this AM, it was at 66.71% before work and later 66.41% after work. I had not expected the fourth bar to drop today. Or any day in next few days honestly, but there she went.

Vehicle was always garaged at home and in covered basement parking at work, so did not get some of the temp extremes that some Leaf drivers report. I believe however, that it sat fully charged in the sun from May of 2016 till September, when I bought it. About 70 QC showing on Leafspy. I drive quite a lot of miles at 70-72 mph. And Kansas City can be quite hot in the Summer. Often would see all temp bars except the top two "danger" bars lit up after a QC in Summer.

I'll call my dealer in AM and inquire about their procedure. I cannot be without the car for weeks and weeks. If they ask to keep the car, and not give me a loaner, I will be rather miffed.....
Any warranty work should include a loaner car (might be ICE unfortunately) so certainly make sure Nissan is going to pick up the tab on that one. It will be a long path, but you are on your way to a 40 kWh battery that will (so far as we can tell here), last a lot longer and you'll easily increase your range as well, all for the price of waiting. ;)
2020 Leaf SL Plus - (Manufacture Date March 2020)
2018 Leaf SL - (Manufacture Date February 2018)
2013 Leaf SV - (8 faithful years of service before trade in at 75,679 miles LeafSpy-Data)
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RRLeafEV
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:18 pm
Delivery Date: 31 May 2018
Leaf Number: 312135
Location: PNW

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

FYI...
I lost my 4th bar on a 2016 SV at almost exactly 39,000 miles, with a SOH of 65.66%, which is higher than a few estimates of when we'll lost the 4th bar, and lower than many other predictions!

I was expecting to drop that 4th bar somewhere around a 2/3rds of new (or 66.66%), and I was one full percentage below that. This link states 66.25%:
https://insideevs.com/news/326563/batte ... ssan-leaf/

Allegedly, they are replacing it under warranty with a 40 kWh, but supply chain issues have had me holding for 3 weeks or so now...

Will report when completed.
2016 SV Silver
2018 SV Gun Metallic (sold)
2018 S (w/QC) Gun Metallic (sold)
2017 SV Gun Metallic (sold)
2016 SL Forged Bronze (sold)
2014 SL Gun Metallic (sold)
2013 SL White & Red (both sold)
outerspaceguy
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:46 pm
Delivery Date: 19 Jul 2017
Leaf Number: 311339
Location: Chandler, AZ

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

cdherman wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:05 pm I'll call my dealer in AM and inquire about their procedure. I cannot be without the car for weeks and weeks. If they ask to keep the car, and not give me a loaner, I will be rather miffed.....
My 2017 leaf lost her fourth bar a little while ago. The process was painless: the dealer confirmed that everything was correctly displayed, and they ordered the replacement. Took a few weeks, but I had the full use of my car until it arrived. Once it arrived, they put in the new battery and off I went. That took the better part of a full day.

The guess-o-meter showed 196 miles I think on the very first charge. It has since re-learned my driving habits and shows a more typical range for a 40kW battery.
cdherman
Posts: 175
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:22 am
Leaf Number: 22947
Location: Kansas City, Missouri

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

As I documented in other threads, my local dealer was/is a little bit harder to deal with. But, I am hopeful a 40kwh battery pack is coming. Corporate Nissan seems still reasonable. Local dealers seem more variable...
2016 SV 30kwh >> 40kwh 3/42022, 2014 Blue Prius, 2011 Silver Prius, 2005 Subaru Forester X, 1965 F-100
8.1KW GridTie Solar
Sold 2012 SL 42k miles, 10 bars, 12/15/16 for $5999 (cannot believe I did that)
Kansas City MO
Skippy
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2021 5:23 pm
Delivery Date: 31 Jan 2020
Location: New Jersey - USA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Just curious. On these 2016-2017 30kwh batteries, is the degradation linear, i.e., dies equally over time/miles, or like us humans, once past a certain age, everything degrades quickly? :)
cdherman
Posts: 175
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:22 am
Leaf Number: 22947
Location: Kansas City, Missouri

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Well, generally Li batteries degrade most at the beginning of their life and then kind of "plataeu" later. That is why the first capacity bar for a Leaf represents 15% of capacity. (I think, IIRC) So that people don't panic too quickly as the first bars drop. Later bars are 6.25%

But sadly, *some* just don't seem to flatten out. They keep dropping. Temperature plays a role. But also, as a battery pack gets "smaller" through degradation, it also get used more intensively. So if you are using 20kwh each day, thats 66% of a new 30 kwh battery. But its nearing 100% of battery that is a 22kwh capacity. The cells are getting completely discharged and fully recharged every day. Lithium is less damaged by that process, BUT it creates more heat. Heat kills.

That's what I know. I'm hoping the 40 kwh replacement that I hopefully get will give me enough range and years till the rest of the vehicle becomes obsolete.
2016 SV 30kwh >> 40kwh 3/42022, 2014 Blue Prius, 2011 Silver Prius, 2005 Subaru Forester X, 1965 F-100
8.1KW GridTie Solar
Sold 2012 SL 42k miles, 10 bars, 12/15/16 for $5999 (cannot believe I did that)
Kansas City MO
gcrouse
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2021 11:51 am
Delivery Date: 03 Apr 2017

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Skippy wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 6:43 pm Just curious. On these 2016-2017 30kwh batteries, is the degradation linear, i.e., dies equally over time/miles, or like us humans, once past a certain age, everything degrades quickly? :)
I don't think there's enough consistency with the packs to really say. There's the folks just above dropping their 4th bars on those model years after following all the best practices and batteries like mine where I'm still sitting at 10 bars (2 lost) without doing much special. For comparison to the above - my 2016 was manufactured 02/16 and presumably sat on the lot collecting dust with a high SoC until i bought it in 04/17. Mine was originally garage kept and charged via TurboCord until 2019 with no QC until 2021. In 2019 i moved and it's been carport kept and I had been doing L2 at the local parking garage until the Eaton unit was more hassle than it was worth and now I'm usually doing L1 there and more QC so I don't have to plug in at my buddy's house unless it's winter. I've had plenty of low battery charge warnings from pushing it to get places and a couple legit turtle modes and as of last year what i call "phantom" turtle modes in cold weather where the car drives normal except for the turtle mode warning (likely indicating cells/modules going bad).

All that being said - it seems like from what I know from reading some of the posts on this thread it's a toss up whether any 30kwh battery is more or less a dud like above despite precautions or like mine where it doesn't seem like it matters exactly what I do and it is generally following Larson's warranty curve for degrading. (https://www.google.com/amp/s/insideevs. ... -leaf/amp/).

Mine seems to generally be tracking this chart on a strictly mileage basis but honestly I didn't start paying much attention until I noticed the 2nd bar drop sometime last year. My dealer is actually pretty good and at the 2020 check up they said it was one of the best 30kwh batteries they had seen, 2021 they were chasing why it started having phantom turtle mode and inexplicably quit doing L1 charging at my buddy's house in winter (outlets are ungrounded but for some reason it charged fine before and quit except for one outlet around the same time the Eaton station started popping faults.) They didn't find anything then but on the other hand i made the mistake of having tow truck driver plug it in there to see if it would L2 charge and it probably got enough charge in there to cover up any weak cells - especially with warmer weather that week. More to follow on mine once I get the battery check up from Nissan in April.
awhile
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:41 am
Delivery Date: 01 Nov 2018
Location: San Diego

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

RRLeafEV wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:54 pm FYI...
I lost my 4th bar on a 2016 SV at almost exactly 39,000 miles, with a SOH of 65.66%, which is higher than a few estimates of when we'll lost the 4th bar, and lower than many other predictions!

I was expecting to drop that 4th bar somewhere around a 2/3rds of new (or 66.66%), and I was one full percentage below that. This link states 66.25%:
https://insideevs.com/news/326563/batte ... ssan-leaf/

Allegedly, they are replacing it under warranty with a 40 kWh, but supply chain issues have had me holding for 3 weeks or so now...

Will report when completed.
FYI
I lost my 4th bar on a 2016 SV at
71,062 miles
2020-09-16
SOH = 65.86
AHr = 52.35

I reported it in this thread around that time.
2016 Leaf SV purchased 10/2018 with 62k miles. Manufactured 10/2015 with first owner at 8/2016. New 40 kWh replacement battery installed 9/2020 under warranty.
dang10010
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:27 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Oct 2019

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

2017 lost it's 3rd bar the end of last summer currently around %70 SOH, it's got 75,000.
My goal is to drop the 4th the end of this summer, the extra range would be nice especially in the cold.
2017 Leaf SV 73xxx+ miles located near St. Louis MO
Dropped to 9 health bars late summer 2021.

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