Caracalover
Posts: 560
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 0567
Location: Tujunga
Contact: Website

Re: My Southern California battery experence

Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:02 pm

TomT wrote:Very rarely; maybe once or twice a month... Perhaps it is hotter on average where I live than you...
Caracalover wrote:
TomT wrote:FYI, I lost my second capacity tick a few days ago... Based on when I lost my first, it seems to be fairly linear...
Strange to hear you have lost two bars when I have lost none TomT. Our milage is close to the same, how often do you go to 100%?
Could be, do you park in a garage?

What elevation?

I park in a garage, and am at about 1800 feet.
26,000 miles on Silver Leaf
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Looking for grants to put in solar port so perhaps in the future...

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TomT
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Location: California, now Georgia
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Re: My Southern California battery experence

Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:21 pm

A garage at about 1,400 feet...
Caracalover wrote:What elevation?
I park in a garage, and am at about 1800 feet.
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
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Boomer23
Posts: 3553
Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 9:57 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Mar 2011
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: My Southern California battery experence

Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:13 pm

padamson1 wrote:
Herm wrote:
GlennD wrote: This morning my 100% charge read 264 gids or 94%
My WAG is that the accuracy of the GID counter is 5%, so perhaps you only had 1% degradation, or you sneezed while less than 10ft from the the Leaf :)
My understanding is that a timed 100% charge will not perform cell balancing, only a manual override 100% and leaving it plugged for a couple of extra hours will get the balancing done. However just doing one manual 100% charge is not enough because the LEAF's top-balancing involves bleeding higher voltage cells until all cells are within a small difference, which means the battery is not really at 100% after a cell balance and an additional charge will be required. Thus most recommend doing two or three successive 100% charges, the first being a manual timer override to perform the cell balance and depleting the battery at least 10% in between the charges, to get the actual peak GID number.

So even taking into consideration the GID error measurement percentage, there is a source of error for a lower GID reading. No guarantee, but from other postings on this subject I'll bet that you pick up enough GIDs to raise your percentage if you follow the recommended practice.
I live in coastal Orange County, Southern California. Just some comparison data from my LEAF:
Delivery date: March 30, 2011
Manufacture date: 2/11
Mileage: 16,550
EDIT: My usual Gid count at 100% up until early May, 2012 was 281 Gids.
Usual Charge %: 100% first 13 months, 80% for the past 5 months
Battery capacity bars: still 12 bars
Driving range from full charge to turtle on July 7, 2012 at 4.0 mi/kWh indicated on dash: 75 miles. This is 87% of the full range at a similar driving economy when the car was new of 86.5 miles.

My 80% charge Gids most recently were in the range of 206 to 204 this past week (about 88% of new battery 231 Gids).
I charged to 100% each night for the past four nights. I used an end timer for the first of these four charges, and a start timer only for the remaining three charges. The Gid readings after the four charges were 243, 240, 247 and 246 (about 88% of new battery 281 Gids).

You can draw your own conclusions, but it looks like successive 100% charges without an end timer might contribute to a more complete full charge.

I agree that I'd rather have zero battery degradation, and when I took delivery of the car, I didn't expect to see any loss for the better part of the first three years. Now that I've read a lot more about lithium batteries, it's clear that capacity loss comes with the territory, though to a varying degree depending on chemistry, temperature management, depth of charge and discharge and many other factors. I think that Nissan should have prepared us better for early capacity loss by making it clear during the initial publicity and buyer screening that we should expect measurable range reduction within the first 18 months. I'm glad I leased, and that decision was carefully made with the expectations that new technology carries with it many unknowns and that the first generations of most new technology are rapidly succeeded by better versions, often at lower prices.

That said, my average daily driving is 30 to 40 miles, and even at 80% charge, I can drive 60 miles. So it looks like the LEAF will be able to fulfill our driving needs through the end of our 39 month lease. Nissan claims that capacity loss is greatest at the beginning of the battery's life and then it levels off. The Arizona loss data looks more linear than that. I'm very curious as to whether we'll see lessening of the rate of Gid loss as the temperatures drop this fall, and even an increase in Gid capacity.
Last edited by Boomer23 on Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14700
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Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: My Southern California battery experence

Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:00 pm

some background for me. i got my LEAF in Jan. used 120 volt charging for 4 months SOC stayed around 40-70%. charged to 100% about 3-5 times a month.

Summer started and i moved started charging 240 at 12 amps and going to 100% 8-10 times a month then going back to 100% charges 3-5 times a month when winter 2011/2012 started.

from March 2nd on, i started charging to 100% 15-20 times a month and i currently have 22,000 miles.

now, the SOC meter should be used as a guideline and no single measurement taken with more than a grain of salt.

my last 6 measurements
274
271
271
273
277
280 (this morning)

temps got colder over the last few days but another thing. if all things were equal each GID should be good for just over .3 miles.

my 280 was measured this morning at 6:30 am when i reset the meter thinking SO was taking it and she took Prius instead. it was 56º

i ended up leaving house at 12:30 and temps were mid 60's. GID was at 279. i take off and GID count drops rapidly to 275 all within ½ mile so about a GID per 10th which tells me the real GID count is closer to 276 max.

on your 264 reading. i did a hot weather charging experiment where instead of charging at night, i parked the car in direct sunlight on the hottest day of the year and started charging at 11 am to 4:30 pm and did this for 4 days in a row.

my GID count was as low as 263...

now, in your case, my situation may mean nothing.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 8468.7 mi, 95.18% SOH
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garygid
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Leaf Number: 000855
Location: Laguna Hills, Orange Co, CA

Re: My Southern California battery experence

Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:05 pm

I am starting to hear people describe their LEAF as
around 3 months old and already at 91% capacity.

I am beginning to wonder if the new LEAFs are
actually showing 99% to 100% when delivered.

If not, then maybe the cells going into the packs,
or the packs themselves, are substantially older
than the vehicle itself.

Try to find some LEAFs at a dealer that are freshly
charged to 80% and see if the GID-Meter indicates
82% as it did on mine when it was new.
(or 281/100% GIDs for a 100% charge).
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: My Southern California battery experence

Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:21 pm

garygid wrote:I am starting to hear people describe their LEAF as
around 3 months old and already at 91% capacity.

Gary, i can believe that. if you are in an area where you are seeing temps in the mid 90's and better on a regular basis i think you will get 4-6 % back when the weather cools down.

i really wish i had your GID meter last Summer
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 8468.7 mi, 95.18% SOH
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pchilds
Posts: 418
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:14 am
Delivery Date: 31 Jul 2011
Leaf Number: 006141
Location: SoCal

Re: My Southern California battery experence

Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:42 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
garygid wrote:I am starting to hear people describe their LEAF as
around 3 months old and already at 91% capacity.

Gary, i can believe that. if you are in an area where you are seeing temps in the mid 90's and better on a regular basis i think you will get 4-6 % back when the weather cools down.

i really wish i had your GID meter last Summer
If only it would, cool down, it hit 105F today.
2011 LEAF, gone,
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GlennD
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Re: My Southern California battery experence

Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:38 pm

My point is I am not of "My Leaf can do no wrong", but I can live with its inevitable battery degradation. Anyone that thinks Nissan has achieved the prefect battery is drinking that Kool Aid.
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mathewbeall
Posts: 24
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Re: My Southern California battery experence

Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:50 am

I am unfortunately one of the folks who just suddenly was affected by this problem. In fact, the car has been going great up to this point - so much that I wasn't even aware that there *was* some sort of battery issue.

I have had my car for 16 months, and it has about 17.5k miles on it and all of a sudden (seemingly in the past 3 months) I have been getting less and less range, and last week I lost my first capacity bar. When I charge my car up it now shows about 65 miles of range (5:00 full charge time btw) , and I am able to get between 50-60 with my normal freeway drive to work.

This is a pretty huge issues for me- and at this rate, by Christmas I won't actually be able to drive my car anymore to work. :(

I took it to the dealer - they did some capacity tests and confirmed that I have lost ~20% capacity. They also gave the standard "this is normal" answer - even though I was led to believe that I would have 80% capacity at 5 years, not 16 months. I leased the vehicle for 39 months figuring that I would have no real issues with battery capacity.

I called Nissan Consumer Affairs and logged a case number - so I am on "The List" now... but the representative, while nice, didn't really have any information he could give me other than that Nissan was "looking into the reports" and for me to keep calling and checking in.

I also called NMAC to see if I could just early-term the lease and walk away from it - since the car is licensed in California things are more difficult - they would have to put the car up on auction and then I would be financially liable for the difference between what it sold for on auction and what my buyout is today. I broached the subject of how unfair that seemed since I was turning the vehicle in because it wasn't actually living up to expectations and I would be able to not drive it in a couple of months. The NMAC representative made the distinction that I need to work with Nissan on that - NMAC was just the finance group (which I get, but its frustrating).

So - At this point I will just have to wait and see what Nissan is able to do about this. I really hope I don't have a huge paperweight in my driveway in a couple of months and me still paying the lease payment.

Matt

mksE55
Posts: 176
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:10 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Oct 2011
Leaf Number: 5086
Location: Tyler TX

Re: My Southern California battery experence

Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:51 pm

Mathewbeall did you call Nissan start a case 1-877 NO GAS EV (664-2738) , if you have your car info it can be added to the WIKI, check out some other post here , Nissan seems to be coming to the table with offers for AZ cars. still waiting to see what that is. if you get a case number post the info here http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8802" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; , sorry to hear the loss.
Bye Bye Exxon , Shell, Mobil
* 2011 SL
3 bar loss 23,000 mi
in less than 2 yrs
4/14 now 4 bar loss 32,000 just over 2 years

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