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Re: IS THIS NORMAL FOR A LEAF?

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:16 pm
by Reddy
ELROY wrote:....I definitely have been reading up on the upgrade. From what I read, it doesn't have the full output of a dedicated L2 charger?
So instead of around 3300 watts, it would charge around 2800-watts? So roughly twice as fast as the trickle charger? How long does it take you to charge the battery generally? Is it around 10hrs instead of the usual 7hrs of a dedicated L2 charger?

Is the efficiency still in the 85% range with this modded trickle charger? Heat issues?
What about turning in the charger at the end of the lease..Is it detectable, or I would have to restore the cord back to original?
Also, is the dryer outlet with the slanted terminals (3 prong) compatible ? (or adapters needed?). Do you have the link to the website?
This thread should help: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 94#p236994
Also, Rev 2 of the EVSEupgrade is 16Ax240v=3.84 KW (http://evseupgrade.com/?x#faq)
Edit: Here's Phil's explanation: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 10#p236712

Reddy. (Not an expert, just read about it on MNL).

Re: IS THIS NORMAL FOR A LEAF?

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:40 pm
by planet4ever
ELROY wrote:Still trying to figure out how much the ECO mode helps. It does seem to show more regen lights on general braking. Is this accurately depicting that much more regen decel/braking when in ECO mode? Why wouldnt they have designed it to regen at maximum efficiency in the first place without resorting to a separate mode?
There are a couple of reasons for that. Some people prefer a gentler slowdown when you take your foot off the accelerator, like a gas car with an automatic transmission. Others prefer a stronger slowdown, like a manual transmission car in second gear. The D/ECO option gives you a choice. Another way to look at this is that some people like to modulate their light braking using accelerator pressure and avoiding the brake pedal whenever possible, while others like to use the brake pedal for all braking.

ECO does also limit the amount of power that can be used for climate control, which can be useful in extreme temperature conditions when trying to extend your range, or frustrating if you simply want your passengers to be comfortable and don't need the range.

As to the accuracy of the bubbles on the dash, they are only a rough measure, of course, but I think they are fairly accurate within the limits of their low resolution. A more precise measurement is available on the center console (Zero Emission button -> Energy Info.), but it can distract your driving to try to watch it there.

I haven't been able to observe any difference between D and ECO when using the brake pedal to slow down. In either mode careful pressure on the pedal can drive regen to the maximum the car will allow. That maximum itself is limited by the state of the battery, both charge level and temperature. Personally I tend to use D on the freeway and ECO in town.

Ray

Re: IS THIS NORMAL FOR A LEAF?

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:47 pm
by Caracalover
Tier 5 is very expensive energy. Consider a solar panel or two. The extra meter will likely cost extra (for LADWP it is $8 a month) so reducing your use or creating your own power will greatly reduce your costs.

Charging elsewhere might be cheaper for you as well, if that is possible. If you can pay your work place .15 or .20 cents a KWH or a flat rate per month you could reduce your home use.

I lived on 120 for a year, and 240 is far more enjoyable. Some think the slower charging adds heat (Due to higher resistance) which would hurt the battery, but others will argue the heat has more time to dissapate, so slower is better. You are leasing, so I would advise getting the EVSE upgrade and trading it before you return the car. Using my dryer port was a hassle though, so an installed charger might be a good idea. There is less resistance in the line when using higher voltage, so it is more efficient. Quick Charge is even more efficient, but does create higher heat in a short amount of time. All of these have trade offs. WIth a Lease it is not as important to prolong the battery life, but you still want it to be as long ranged as you can for the 39 months you own it, so try to follow good battery practices - it is about the only maintenance issue this car has, and is easy once you understand it. Sounds like you have read enough here to know what we do at this time.

I went with Schnieder ($7-800), and any electrician should be able to install it for about $75. Trouble you may have is conditions that Edison places on the installation, although I believe they install the meter for free, they may like LADWP charge a service fee for it and insist on a dedicated charger.

Re: IS THIS NORMAL FOR A LEAF?

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:06 pm
by cwerdna
Caracalover wrote:Tier 5 is very expensive energy. Consider a solar panel or two. The extra meter will likely cost extra (for LADWP it is $8 a month) so reducing your use or creating your own power will greatly reduce your costs.
I haven't read this whole thread, but I'd also consider cutting home energy use. As I noted in another thread, something like http://www.p3international.com/products ... 00-ce.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; can help identify big users and vampires.

In PG&E land and have no EV but I'm area XB (http://www.pge.com/myhome/customerservi ... nderstand/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) so I get allocated 11.0 or 11.7 kWh/day as a baseline and am on schedule E-1 (non-TOU).

My last electric bill (covered 9/13 thru 10/11) was for 253 kwh, costing me $34.30 w/taxes and crap, not including my gas bill (which was $10.10 w/taxes and crap for 9 therms). I was totally under my allocated baseline of 319 kwh for the month. This is with me being at home most of the time as I'm not working at the moment. The electricity would go even lower if I were working... However, I'm living alone. I'm sure if I had multiple people here, both would be a lot higher.

IMHO, the PG&E tiers, at least for my area are a joke (and rates are higher) for anyone w/a large house and multiple people living in it. I think my bill would be insane if I had AC, multiple people, hot tub, a pool and a BEV or two.

Re: IS THIS NORMAL FOR A LEAF?

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:28 pm
by ELROY
planet4ever wrote:
ELROY wrote:Still trying to figure out how much the ECO mode helps. It does seem to show more regen lights on general braking. Is this accurately depicting that much more regen decel/braking when in ECO mode? Why wouldnt they have designed it to regen at maximum efficiency in the first place without resorting to a separate mode?
There are a couple of reasons for that. Some people prefer a gentler slowdown when you take your foot off the accelerator, like a gas car with an automatic transmission. Others prefer a stronger slowdown, like a manual transmission car in second gear. The D/ECO option gives you a choice. Another way to look at this is that some people like to modulate their light braking using accelerator pressure and avoiding the brake pedal whenever possible, while others like to use the brake pedal for all braking.

ECO does also limit the amount of power that can be used for climate control, which can be useful in extreme temperature conditions when trying to extend your range, or frustrating if you simply want your passengers to be comfortable and don't need the range.

As to the accuracy of the bubbles on the dash, they are only a rough measure, of course, but I think they are fairly accurate within the limits of their low resolution. A more precise measurement is available on the center console (Zero Emission button -> Energy Info.), but it can distract your driving to try to watch it there.

I haven't been able to observe any difference between D and ECO when using the brake pedal to slow down. In either mode careful pressure on the pedal can drive regen to the maximum the car will allow. That maximum itself is limited by the state of the battery, both charge level and temperature. Personally I tend to use D on the freeway and ECO in town.

Ray

Great info guys. I am normally a pretty technical guy, but I'm only 1 week into the electric vehicle scene. (Well I actually have a little electric scooter which does 17mph, 6 mile range, which made me fall in love with electric cars).

As far as my home, I have already converted to LED lighting almost everywhere. The porch, landscaping, chandelier, bedroom, bathrooms, etc. I even spent $100 for LED tubes to replace the two flourescent tube lights in the garge. My bill was definitely getting smaller. But in the scheme of things...the electric car is going to blow the KWs through the roof. I have driven about 350miles so far since last weekend, and charge for at least 10 hrs every day on average.

But i'm basically a car nut. I used to constantly test my BMW 335i and 335d. Ran low 11's, 0-60 in 3.1 seconds in the gas car, 130mph traps, and 12.9 in the diesel at 109mph. For over a year I had the fastest/quickest 335i in the nation. I have a GPS Vbox to log test results, and constantly adjusted settings and monitored stuff on the laptop. I actually had over 1.5 million views on youtube with hundreds of subscribers from the BMW performance scene. I used to marvel at how I could run 11 second qtr miles and still get over 30mpg back from the race track, or 45mpg in the diesel. So I have always had an appreciation for extreme efficiency. The 335d is one of the most powerful cars capable of getting 45mpg. Still remarkable that the LEAF battery has about 70% of the energy of a gallon of gasoline, yet you can go 80 miles on it! But I'm sure I will be in here posting my 0-60 times and qtr mile results with the LEAF :)

Re: IS THIS NORMAL FOR A LEAF?

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:32 pm
by cwerdna
^^^
I'd imagine that neither of your BMWs are stock. Those times sound faster than any stock 335i or 335d could do, when measured by timing equipment at a track.

(I've taken my former stock 04 350Z and 02 Maxima to drag strip before so I have some idea of typical times given a hp rating and curb weight, besides "bench racing" by looking at times in magazines and various car web sites.)

Re: IS THIS NORMAL FOR A LEAF?

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:47 pm
by ELROY
cwerdna wrote:^^^
I'd imagine that neither of your BMWs are stock. Those times sound faster than any stock 335i or 335d could do, when measured by timing equipment at a track.

(I've taken my former stock 04 350Z and 02 Maxima to drag strip before so I have some idea of typical times given a hp rating and curb weight, besides "bench racing" by looking at times in magazines and various car web sites.)
Yup, totally understand that

Here is a link to the 335d doing a 4.5 sec 0-60 time, high 12 sec qtr mile...with a 2nd gear launch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix2tbcc9 ... ure=fvwrel" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is a link to my fastest 60-130 time on the 335i

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2cfEpbx4nc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: IS THIS NORMAL FOR A LEAF?

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:53 pm
by cwerdna
BTW, I saw your comments on operating cost once you're into tier 5 electricity. Yep. There are some here on MNL who keep talking about how cheap it is to "fuel" a Leaf. Yeah, it sure is if you've got cheap electricity and are comparing to a not very efficient car...

You'd fall over if you haven't seen the rates at https://www.seattle.gov/light/accounts/ ... 24.htm#rsc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and http://www.douglaspud.org/Service/2012R ... 12012.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (ignore the demand charges as I doubt a house would pull 50 kW at a time). I don't think we've gotten anyone here from Douglas County.

Electricity in CA can be a real ripoff. It is w/PG&E...

Re: IS THIS NORMAL FOR A LEAF?

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:30 am
by planet4ever
Caracalover wrote:Tier 5 is very expensive energy. Consider a solar panel or two.
Or twenty or forty. I'm not from the SCE end of the state, so I haven't been keeping up with solar tradeoffs there, but it looks like there is a lot of discussion here: Official Southern California Edison thread

Certainly up here in PG&E land, and for my home, solar has saved our bacon. I'm part of a multi-generation family living under one roof, with a somewhat adjustable size from 5 to 9 people, two full kitchens and a couple of us who are very sensitive to heat. We average roughly 54kWh/day despite some attempts to conserve. That would put about 40% of our usage in tier 5 without the solar panels and would probably cost us somewhere close to $6,000/year on the standard rate schedule. In fact we pay about one fourth of that even though we only generate 60% of our electricity.

Ray

Re: IS THIS NORMAL FOR A LEAF?

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:00 am
by TonyWilliams
ELROY wrote:
dgpcolorado wrote: If you haven't already done so, please take a look at Tony's range chart.

I actually carry the chart in the car. Lots of variables of course, but at least I can tell by my mi/kw what range of the chart I fall in. I average 3.2 mi/kwhr normally, but the 80 mile trip was at 4.0 mi/kwhr....(Dash Read Out) ... I only got 80 miles till the -- -- -- range indicator.
Does anyone know the effect of having an extra 275lbs in passengers in addition to me (175lbs).???
You pretty much nailed the expected range. At 4 miles/kWh, with a new battery at 21kWh useable at 70F (or warmer), 4 * 21 = 84 miles of range. If you look on the range chart, you will see that there were four miles left from Very Low Battery (when the GOM goes to "---"), Therefore your 80 miles plus 4 more equals 84 of range to turtle. Your LEAF's range autonomy couldn't be more perfect to our baseline model.

Sorry, there is no specific data on extra weight, because its effect is relatively small on steady speed level road. Either stop-and-go or up-and-down will have a greater impact to range. I offer a caution blurb on the range chart for those planning it close to max range with more than a driver.