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LEAFer
Posts: 2647
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 19 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 000215
Location: Sacramento Area

Re: IS THIS NORMAL FOR A LEAF?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:05 am

ELROY wrote:So all in all, if it takes 20hrs to charge (23 indicated), it will be about $10 in electricity to have traveled 66miles. At $4.20 gallon for fuel, this would be about 2.38 gallons of fuel, or about the same costs as a gas car achieving 27.73mpg. Not remarkable at all.

Once I get a metered level II charger at .13 cents /kwhr instead of my current .32 cents kwhr, then is will only be about $3.90 to charge the battery instead of $10. The resulting economy would be equivalent to a 71mpg trip, which I could live with.
If you charge for 20 hours on Level 1, pulling 1.44kW (120V x 12amps) from the wall, your total would be 28.8kWh x 0.32 = $9.22. (Close to the $10 you are assuming.)

However, with a new battery's usable 21kWh, and assuming 86% efficiency on L2, it would cost you $3.17 to fill-up, ( (21 / .86) * 0.13 ), rather than $3.90.

The largest variable, however, is your assumed 66 miles from full-to-empty. You should be able to at least match the 73 miles EPA rating or better. But even given the conservative 73 miles (which would be 3.48miles/kWh) ... I get:

$3.17 spent, or ($3.17 / $4.20) = 0.755 gallons for 73 miles ==> 97mpg ! Not bad. (The car is rated at 99MPGe.)
ELROY wrote:Trying to get 5mi/kwhr would be very difficult. With the cruise control set at 35mph-45mph, it was usually below 5.
Something is wrong. Check your tire pressures (try cold psi at 40). Also make sure HVAC is completely off (the heater "steals" a lot of energy).
2011 Silver SL+QC [Mfg: 11/2010] 36mo/15k LEASE
06Jun2013 Status [28.5 months][34,173 miles][11 bars]
Lost CapacityBar 6/6/13 @34,173 miles while in LEAF Battery Monitor: 83.41%, 71.4F (avg); cool overnight;

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surfingslovak
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Re: IS THIS NORMAL FOR A LEAF?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:08 am

LEAFer wrote:(the heater "steals" a lot of energy).
His heater reportedly doesn't work :D
ELROY wrote:So it sounds like going to the -- -- -- reading isn't all that critical, except for Nissans definition of it being detrimental to battery health. Do you feel that going to the 0 range is not to critical for battery life? From what I understand, its much less of a factor than always charging to 100% because of the associated heat buildup, etc. Kind of funny how in the interviews, the reps said its fine to quick charge once a day. I am beginning to wonder what goes on in the battery consultation during the service visits?? Do I get reprimanded for letting the battery deplete to 0 miles? How much of this is tracked for evaluation on the service visits?
Good point and a whole separate topic, which I will try to respond to later. We don't have definitive answers to everything, but I wouldn't worry about the annual battery check. That much is sure, and based on the collective experience here, it's a farce. Thanks to Phil, we know what battery data is being collected behind the scenes, and I would not be concerned one iota about going to low SOC. In fact it's something the NO-GAS-EV hotline recommended I did when I complained about lack of range, and not having access to all of the advertised 24 kWh of battery capacity. Yes, it's detrimental to battery life to go that low, but unless you drove it to turtle and left it that way for days and weeks, nobody will say anything.Image
Last edited by surfingslovak on Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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LEAFer
Posts: 2647
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Delivery Date: 19 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 000215
Location: Sacramento Area

Re: IS THIS NORMAL FOR A LEAF?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:18 am

surfingslovak wrote:
LEAFer wrote:(the heater "steals" a lot of energy).
His heater reportedly doesn't work :D
Ooops ... I missed that :) Hmmm. So maybe a broken heater steals more than a working heater ? :lol:
2011 Silver SL+QC [Mfg: 11/2010] 36mo/15k LEASE
06Jun2013 Status [28.5 months][34,173 miles][11 bars]
Lost CapacityBar 6/6/13 @34,173 miles while in LEAF Battery Monitor: 83.41%, 71.4F (avg); cool overnight;

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surfingslovak
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Re: IS THIS NORMAL FOR A LEAF?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:20 am

LEAFer wrote: So maybe a broken heater steals more than a working heater ? :lol:
That would make for an interesting discussion! :lol:

ELROY
Posts: 292
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:36 pm
Delivery Date: 27 Oct 2012
Leaf Number: 023406
Location: Camarillo, CA

Re: IS THIS NORMAL FOR A LEAF?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:03 am

surfingslovak wrote:
LEAFer wrote: So maybe a broken heater steals more than a working heater ? :lol:
That would make for an interesting discussion! :lol:
Actually very interesting thing going on with the heater. I followed the advice from this forum on watching the climate controlk kw draw meter.

Set the temp to 90F, ran the climate control, cold air. Kw graph was staying low. So I continued to run it trying to defrost the inside moisture of my windshield with the blowing cool ambient air. The suddenly I see the Kw graph start rampiing up. I think it went anywhere from 2-4kw. So I knew something was going on. Then the air started to warm up. So I watched the kw meter surge up/down. I lowered the temp and the gauge would go up, and seemed to do its own thing...is this kw monitor perhaps very very delayed to what I am doing with the temp, climate control, etc? When it was drawing 2-4kw, I thought I would turn on the ac compressor and see the effect, and didn't see a direct, immediate corrolation. Perhaps having to do with the very delayed kw meter readout? Is this normal?
I will play with it some more tonight.

Yes the cheaper electricity will make a huge difference. On the other hand, I looked at my AMEX bill which details gas purchases. I really only spend $160/month or so on fuel. So not matter what, with thousands for a charger, and the new car payment, etc....its still a more expensive proposition than just driving my already paid off Honda I was using...but perhaps a more environmentally friendly alternative driving the LEAF. Not withstanding the cost of electricity, it is remarkable that you can drive 60-80 miles on the same energy content of about 2/3 a gallon of fuel. (our 24KWh battery back vs 1 gallon of 33KWh? gas) .

Good info here on the forum though!

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RegGuheert
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Re: IS THIS NORMAL FOR A LEAF?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:09 am

ELROY wrote:Perhaps having to do with the very delayed kw meter readout? Is this normal?
We are just learning about the heater ourselves since we purchased the LEAF in March and it hasn't been very cold until now. I would say this is normal. The heater seems to increase its power level very gradually.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

ELROY
Posts: 292
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:36 pm
Delivery Date: 27 Oct 2012
Leaf Number: 023406
Location: Camarillo, CA

Re: IS THIS NORMAL FOR A LEAF?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:47 am

RegGuheert wrote:
ELROY wrote:Perhaps having to do with the very delayed kw meter readout? Is this normal?
We are just learning about the heater ourselves since we purchased the LEAF in March and it hasn't been very cold until now. I would say this is normal. The heater seems to increase its power level very gradually.
Just tried it again. Nothing for about 30 seconds, then the climate meter ramps up to about 3.5kw. So just delayed. I think it is the climate control logic and not the KW meter. As the "other" KW gauge reacts immediately to turning on/off the headlights.

On a side note, I know there is supposed to be that electronic whine sound which supposedly eminates from the R/F fenderwell area to alert pedestrians.

What is the sound that also comes on right around 2mph and sounds like a breathing tube or something. (like those dental suction tubes) It sounds like it comes from the left front area. It is actually the loudest sound I hear when driving at very slow speeds. Normal?? The way it suddenly goes on/off, I don't think it is a fan/motor. Kind of like the way it sounds when your brake pads are grinding metal to metal, but not quite that metallic sounding.

Reddy
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Re: IS THIS NORMAL FOR A LEAF?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:29 pm

ELROY wrote:What is the sound that also comes on right around 2mph and sounds like a breathing tube or something. (like those dental suction tubes) It sounds like it comes from the left front area. It is actually the loudest sound I hear when driving at very slow speeds. Normal?? The way it suddenly goes on/off, I don't think it is a fan/motor. Kind of like the way it sounds when your brake pads are grinding metal to metal, but not quite that metallic sounding.
That's the "noise maker." Yes, comes on around 2mph and off around 15-20 mph or so. Edit: Here's more info:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... er#p239802
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... &hilit=VSP
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... &hilit=VSP
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... &hilit=VSP

Reddy
Last edited by Reddy on Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 45.80 AHr; 45,000 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

ELROY
Posts: 292
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:36 pm
Delivery Date: 27 Oct 2012
Leaf Number: 023406
Location: Camarillo, CA

Re: IS THIS NORMAL FOR A LEAF?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:32 pm

Reddy wrote:
ELROY wrote:What is the sound that also comes on right around 2mph and sounds like a breathing tube or something. (like those dental suction tubes) It sounds like it comes from the left front area. It is actually the loudest sound I hear when driving at very slow speeds. Normal?? The way it suddenly goes on/off, I don't think it is a fan/motor. Kind of like the way it sounds when your brake pads are grinding metal to metal, but not quite that metallic sounding.
That's the "noise maker." Yes, comes on around 2mph and off around 15-20 mph or so.

Reddy
How many external "generated" sounds are there?

1. The back up chime
2. The electronic whining noise from the R/F fenderwell speaker?
3. The breathing tube type noise?

Both 2 & 3 do seem to come on around the same time, but not always exactly the same time.

EDIT: Just saw your links on the sound generator....will check them out!
Last edited by ELROY on Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DoxyLover
Posts: 517
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Delivery Date: 16 Oct 2011
Leaf Number: 9214
Location: San Jose, CA

Re: IS THIS NORMAL FOR A LEAF?

Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:56 pm

ELROY wrote:Just tried it again. Nothing for about 30 seconds, then the climate meter ramps up to about 3.5kw. So just delayed. I think it is the climate control logic and not the KW meter. As the "other" KW gauge reacts immediately to turning on/off the headlights.
Interesting.

First of all, be aware that the "other" gauge is artificial: it just notes that things like the headlights and wipers are on and off and indicates a fixed value for each. It doesn't actually measure anything. The powertrain and climate control gauges are actual measurements of power draw.

There may be delay on the climate control gauge, but not more than a few seconds. The climate control system seems to have a mind of its own sometimes, but I've never seen it draw nothing for 30 seconds before starting to draw power. Not sure what's going on here.
2011 Brilliant Silver Leaf SL
Reserved, quoted and ordered July 11, 2011
Delivered October 16, 2011 (Na. Plug-In Day)

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