Seeley
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:40 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Mar 2014
Location: marietta, georgia

Re: 2013 Leaf - Dead 12-Volt Battery every 2 Weeks

Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:54 pm

I use antigravity batteries in my racebikes, because they are so light.

They are lighter than other lithium ion batteries because of the cell technology, somewhere on their website they explain it. Basically, the shape of the cells is how they do it.

The important thing to know about these, and other lithium batteries is how they react to cold weather. The Leaf doesn't use the 12V battery to try to turn over and start an ICE, like it does on the motorcycles, but on the bikes it won't start them immediately when the air temps fall below about 40F. It's not a big deal for us, you turn the bike ignition on, try and fail to start it, then let it sit for about 30 seconds while the battery warms itself. Then it will start.

Phatcat73
Posts: 478
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Leaf Number: 401511
Location: Buffalo Grove, Il

Re: 2013 Leaf - Dead 12-Volt Battery every 2 Weeks

Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:47 am

Since starting this thread I've purchased a small jumpstart pack that serves as a jumper, flashlight and portable USB charger. And it fits in the glovebox. It provides between 200-400cca which should be more than enough for a Leaf. Nissan should probably include one of these!!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D42 ... UTF8&psc=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I haven't had a chance to use it but feel more confident I won't get stuck with a dead battery.

Unlike ICE cars where the alternator keeps the lead acid battery charged at 14.4V during operation, the Leaf hovers between 14 and 12, usually the latter. I suspect this to be a factor with waking up to a dead battery.
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RegGuheert
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Location: Northern VA

Re: 2013 Leaf - Dead 12-Volt Battery every 2 Weeks

Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:43 pm

Phatcat73 wrote:Unlike ICE cars where the alternator keeps the lead acid battery charged at 14.4V during operation, the Leaf hovers between 14 and 12, usually the latter. I suspect this to be a factor with waking up to a dead battery.
Me, too. The only justification I can think of for this design decision is perhaps Nissan was concerned that the LEAF spends about 6X as much time charging as driving, which means the 12V battery would be charged 7X as long as any other car if they kept it at 14.4V all the time. So they drop it down to 13.1V most of the time to prevent premature loss of electrolyte.

Proposed simple solution (for Nissan): Charge at 14.4V when the car is in READY mode (being driven), and hold charge by using 13.1V when charging. Voila! Your battery gets fully charged whenever it is driven and not at other times, which should closely match every other car on the road. If the battery is very low, 13.1V is high enough to bring it to about 50% SOC, so it won't go dead while charging.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
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BrockWI
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Re: 2013 Leaf - Dead 12-Volt Battery every 2 Weeks

Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:45 pm

I got to thinking about this and thought I should put my Deltran battery tender 1.25 amp 4 stage charger on the leaf battery. I usually top off our TDI and van battery once a week in winter just to be safe. They usually take about 60 minutes to top off, about 1.25 ah in an 80 ah battery. I connected the charger up and it took just over 5 hours to get the battery to flashing green (absorb stage) and another 2 hours to go to solid green (float stage). That is about 1.25 *5 or 6 ah back in that little battery. Does anyone know what capacity it is, if I had to guess I would say 30ah?

Anyway since the car is used regularly, 1000 miles in the last two weeks I was surprised it took that much to top it off. Bottom line I think I will do this more often, maybe weekly in winter and less in summer?

Just thought I would share.
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Reddy
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Location: Pasco, WA

Re: 2013 Leaf - Dead 12-Volt Battery every 2 Weeks

Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:20 am

A few months ago I purchased the CTEK 93-56-865 US 0.8 Black 12V Battery Charger that Ingineer recommended. I've used it many times, sometimes several times in a week. Since all of my trips are short, I would expect the Leaf to charge the PbA battery at maximum for at least 10 - 20 min. However, I have also observed that it takes several hours to charge using the CTEK. As you said, this suggests that the Leaf isn't keeping the PbA battery fully charged. I've done the same thing with my ICE PbA battery, and yes, it only takes about an hour or two even though it is a much larger battery.
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 45.80 AHr; 45,000 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

donald
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Re: 2013 Leaf - Dead 12-Volt Battery every 2 Weeks

Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:31 am

Float charging for lead acid is ~13.4V. They could simply hold it steady at that voltage, forever.

joerivct
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:03 am
Delivery Date: 24 Feb 2014
Leaf Number: 424843
Location: Riverside CT

Re: 2013 Leaf - Dead 12-Volt Battery every 2 Weeks

Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:38 pm

I spoke to a person at AntiGravity Batteries about their current products and the Leaf, and he stated that their current batteries are made for starting. As we all know, this is not needed for the Leaf. He did say that they are working on a Leaf-specific battery that will pack a lot of AHs without the need for cranking capacity, as the Leaf start-up draw is minimal. They are designing a battery with BMS as part of it. As to working in the cold, they have batteries that are used in snowmobiles without any issues.

Keep looking at their website to see if one shows up - at last a 12v battery designed specifically for the Leaf!
2013 S, QC package, DEC mfg

DaveinOlyWA
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Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2013 Leaf - Dead 12-Volt Battery every 2 Weeks

Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:14 am

donald wrote:Float charging for lead acid is ~13.4V. They could simply hold it steady at that voltage, forever.
most lead acid batts require a charging profile which charges to something in the neighborhood of 14.5 volts until it hits a point then it goes into a sort of cell balancing mode where it drops to 13ish volts. but this part is generally less than 30-45 minutes or so. i had a ZENN with lead acid and different types of lead acid chemistries have slightly different charging profiles but all followed a similar pattern.

a charger will stay in hold mode but most will not indicate active charging in this mode
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 25,185 miles SOH 92.23%
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davewill
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Re: 2013 Leaf - Dead 12-Volt Battery every 2 Weeks

Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:37 pm

pyrotech wrote:... I talked with the Service Manager and explained that I didn't want to pay $34K for a new car and not be able to start it without a jump every morning, and he said that seemed reasonable, but he needs it to fail the tests on Nissan's machine in order to do a warranty replacement.
I sense some finger pointing to what seems maybe a rock and a hard place for me.
Bullshit. Something is wrong with your car. Maybe it isn't the battery, but something is wrong. Escalate this to Nissan. Carefully document every problem and every attempt to fix it. Forward this account to the Service Mgr and Nissan. Don't take no for an answer.
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derkraut
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Leaf Number: 004248
Location: San Diego vicinity

Re: 2013 Leaf - Dead 12-Volt Battery every 2 Weeks

Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:51 pm

davewill wrote:
pyrotech wrote:... I talked with the Service Manager and explained that I didn't want to pay $34K for a new car and not be able to start it without a jump every morning, and he said that seemed reasonable, but he needs it to fail the tests on Nissan's machine in order to do a warranty replacement.
I sense some finger pointing to what seems maybe a rock and a hard place for me.
Bullshit. Something is wrong with your car. Maybe it isn't the battery, but something is wrong. Escalate this to Nissan. Carefully document every problem and every attempt to fix it. Forward this account to the Service Mgr and Nissan. Don't take no for an answer.
+1
Derkraut
Color: Cayenne SLE, ETEC trim
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