gncndad
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Location: Ft. Worth, TX

Re: T/M Vehicle System Malfunction Warning

Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:56 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:46 pm
It's worth noting at this point that sometimes replacing the OEM battery with a larger capacity AGM type battery will solve or lessen the undercharging issue. It may be because the car's charging algorithm works better with more available capacity. The configuration needed is 51R. Make sure that the new battery - of whatever type - is FULLY charged either before or right after installation, using an external charger.


This is a critical step that is overlooked. Depending on turnover, you might be getting a battery that has been sitting for a long time.

Single data point: 2015 LeafS, $150 BoschAGM 51R, now 1.5 years old, doing fine. After several months of almost daily use (short trips), I put it on a 1.25a BatteryTenderPlus overnight. It showed fully charged the next morning.
2015 LeafS
2018 Toyota Prius Four Touring
2018 Toyota Prius Two
2014 Toyota Avalon Hybrid Limited

LeftieBiker
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Re: T/M Vehicle System Malfunction Warning

Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:21 pm

Yes, car batteries are sold with the assumption that the car's alternator will charge them right up on the first drive, so they aren't usually topped off before or after installation. EVs are much more leisurely about charging accessory batteries, and the Leaf can be downright negligent about it.
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arnis
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Re: T/M Vehicle System Malfunction Warning

Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:18 am

Car batteries do not care about vendor assumptions.
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

Nicoladie
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Delivery Date: 04 Aug 2015
Leaf Number: 323947

Re: T/M Vehicle System Malfunction Warning

Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:33 pm

I have the same problem with the car won’t start initially as if the brake pedal was not depressed to turn on to “run” mode without any error message. Then it started but the brake totally failed which scared me so I turned off the car immediately but it won’t start again after multiple trials. Then eventually it displays the warning error message of T/M vehicle system malfunction.

So I thought the brake system failed. But then the electrical system flickers by itself, turning on and off the dashboard lights. Then I know it’s the battery problem, either that terminals were loose or the battery is dying on the last breathe. And eventually the battery was so drained that it couldn’t wind down the window. I was afraid I need to tow it to the dealer to check it out but decided to replace the 12V battery instead.

So I jump started the Leaf with a jumper cable from an ICE car and it turns on without a glitch. Then I drove it to the auto store and they checked the 12V battery and sure enough, the battery is no good. So they replace the battery for me and it runs without any problem.

So it’s the 12V battery not having enough voltage to run the electronics that gives the warning error message and failed to even detect the wireless ignition key.

Thanks you all In this forum, it saves me the towing cost or paying the dealer to work on the car or the brakes when it’s simply a dead battery problem.

Why do they even need a 12V battery to run the lights and electrical system when there’s the lithium battery already? Granted that the voltage may be different but why not get rid of the lead acid battery completely when you have the lithium battery to deliver more power, longevity and stability than the lead acid battery without requiring the cranking power to start the torque motor that’s not like the ICE engine that requires the juice to start the engine when electric motor is self-starting?

It’s easy to use a transformer to match the voltage for the lights and electronic system using the lithium battery without the lead acid battery. I’m surprised the stupid engineers didn’t put an alternator in the Leaf to charge the lead acid battery :roll:

Levenkay
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Re: T/M Vehicle System Malfunction Warning

Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:42 am

Nicoladie wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:33 pm
Why do they even need a 12V battery to run the lights and electrical system when there’s the lithium battery already? Granted that the voltage may be different but why not get rid of the lead acid battery completely when you have the lithium battery to deliver more power, longevity and stability than the lead acid battery without requiring the cranking power to start the torque motor that’s not like the ICE engine that requires the juice to start the engine when electric motor is self-starting?
Well, that's a penetrating insight. Odd, don't you think, that not only Nissan, but Every other EV manufacturer makes the same silly mistake and uses a 12V system to run onboard electronics, accessories, and lighting? Maybe it has something to do with
  • Safety Feel like plugging into a 400VDC cigarette lighter?
  • Safety HV power should be cold and dead when car's off. So what runs the systems that listen to the key fob?
  • Safety Interrupting a 400VDC circuit, whether by a mechanical switch OR a fuse, is extremely challenging
  • Economics Twelve volt automotive systems are ubiquitous, with HUGE economies of scale
Nicoladie wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:33 pm
It’s easy to use a transformer to match the voltage for the lights and electronic system using the lithium battery without the lead acid battery. I’m surprised the stupid engineers didn’t put an alternator in the Leaf to charge the lead acid battery :roll:
Transformers only work for AC power, not DC. A legitimate disappointment about the LEAF's 12V system is its use of a lead-acid battery. Now if only Nissan could discover some other battery technology... Nah, that's just a pipe dream.

LeftieBiker
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Re: T/M Vehicle System Malfunction Warning

Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:17 pm

The issue with the Leaf isn't that there is no good way to convert 400VDC to 13VDC. The DC-DC converter does that just fine. It is the way that the car is programmed to keep the 12 volt battery slightly starved for power that causes problems. Alternators, BTW, require a spinning shaft to work.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SimonMatthews
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:17 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2016

Re: T/M Vehicle System Malfunction Warning

Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:20 pm

Nicoladie wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:33 pm
I have the same problem with the car won’t start initially as if the brake pedal was not depressed to turn on to “run” mode without any error message. Then it started but the brake totally failed which scared me so I turned off the car immediately but it won’t start again after multiple trials. Then eventually it displays the warning error message of T/M vehicle system malfunction.

So I thought the brake system failed. But then the electrical system flickers by itself, turning on and off the dashboard lights. Then I know it’s the battery problem, either that terminals were loose or the battery is dying on the last breathe. And eventually the battery was so drained that it couldn’t wind down the window. I was afraid I need to tow it to the dealer to check it out but decided to replace the 12V battery instead.

So I jump started the Leaf with a jumper cable from an ICE car and it turns on without a glitch. Then I drove it to the auto store and they checked the 12V battery and sure enough, the battery is no good. So they replace the battery for me and it runs without any problem.

So it’s the 12V battery not having enough voltage to run the electronics that gives the warning error message and failed to even detect the wireless ignition key.

Thanks you all In this forum, it saves me the towing cost or paying the dealer to work on the car or the brakes when it’s simply a dead battery problem.

Why do they even need a 12V battery to run the lights and electrical system when there’s the lithium battery already? Granted that the voltage may be different but why not get rid of the lead acid battery completely when you have the lithium battery to deliver more power, longevity and stability than the lead acid battery without requiring the cranking power to start the torque motor that’s not like the ICE engine that requires the juice to start the engine when electric motor is self-starting?

It’s easy to use a transformer to match the voltage for the lights and electronic system using the lithium battery without the lead acid battery. I’m surprised the stupid engineers didn’t put an alternator in the Leaf to charge the lead acid battery :roll:
We have had this problem also. The 12V battery is losing charge due to lack of use and we have had a couple of occasions when the car would start, go into "R", but the brakes totally fail.

IMHO, there should be a recall to fix this.

cwerdna
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Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: T/M Vehicle System Malfunction Warning

Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:42 pm

SimonMatthews wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:20 pm
We have had this problem also. The 12V battery is losing charge due to lack of use and we have had a couple of occasions when the car would start, go into "R", but the brakes totally fail.

IMHO, there should be a recall to fix this.
I suggest you file a safety complaint w/NHTSA at https://www.safercar.gov/.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
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Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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Stanton
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Re: T/M Vehicle System Malfunction Warning

Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:49 am

Levenkay wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:42 am
Transformers only work for AC power, not DC. A legitimate disappointment about the LEAF's 12V system is its use of a lead-acid battery. Now if only Nissan could discover some other battery technology... Nah, that's just a pipe dream.
At the risk of beating a dead horse...it's very easy to replace the 12v lead-acid with a 12v Lithium battery. I have had mine (see sig) for over 5 years now with no issues (and I have never had a 12v battery last that long in Texas)...and there are more choices now than when I bought mine. Search for my name and the 12v Lithium thread I started years ago. EVs are perfect candidates for Lithium starter batteries since they almost universally have "phantom drain" from telematics and Lithium batteries don't care if their charge levels fall below 50% (unlike lead-acid).
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/floor mats & window tint
Lithium Pros 12v LiFePO4 battery w/Antigravity Battery Tracker
FIAMM 74100 horns
Wet Okole seat covers
Tor's low-power heater mod
2013 sun visor
Battery Pack replaced (Rev E) @51 months and 41k miles

LeftieBiker
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Re: T/M Vehicle System Malfunction Warning

Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:24 pm

EVs are perfect candidates for Lithium starter batteries since they almost universally have "phantom drain" from telematics and Lithium batteries don't care if their charge levels fall below 50% (unlike lead-acid).
They do care very much, however, if their SOC falls below 10%. That's why I don't recommend them: an expensive lithium battery can get killed dead just like a cheap SLA battery, and then cost several times as much to replace. Lithium can be a good solution for people who are actively involved in maintaining/monitoring their cars, but not so much for those who want to just drive the things.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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