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2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:15 am
by adric22
We traded in our degraded 2011 about 6 months ago for a 2013. And the battery range has been fantastic. But I've been wondering what to expect with the 2013 models. Technically they've been on the road now for around 2 years. Have there been any reports of battery degradation on these models? I realize the battery was changed for 2013 and I also realize it was changed again for the 2015 model. And while the hopes are high for the lizard battery, I'm curious if anything is yet known about the reliability of the 2013/2014 battery. Has anyone lost any capacity bars yet?

Re: Any degradation statistics on 2013 yet?

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:16 am
by epirali
adric22 wrote:We traded in our degraded 2011 about 6 months ago for a 2013. And the battery range has been fantastic. But I've been wondering what to expect with the 2013 models. Technically they've been on the road now for around 2 years. Have there been any reports of battery degradation on these models? I realize the battery was changed for 2013 and I also realize it was changed again for the 2015 model. And while the hopes are high for the lizard battery, I'm curious if anything is yet known about the reliability of the 2013/2014 battery. Has anyone lost any capacity bars yet?
I am not a good data point for you (I am in Maryland where we do have hot days in the summer, but nothing crazy). After 15,000 miles and 1 year I my health is down to 96-97% from 101% (63 AHR). I do a mix of charging 80 and 100% (probably 20% of the time to 100%), usual daily commute is from 80%-50% with two charges at L2 per day. Never done a QC yet (not chargers near me) and I tend to leave the car around 40-50% charge when not in use (or at waiting for charging timer to go to 80% in the morning).

Re: Any degradation statistics on 2013 yet?

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:40 am
by dgpcolorado
adric22 wrote:We traded in our degraded 2011 about 6 months ago for a 2013. And the battery range has been fantastic. But I've been wondering what to expect with the 2013 models. Technically they've been on the road now for around 2 years. Have there been any reports of battery degradation on these models? I realize the battery was changed for 2013 and I also realize it was changed again for the 2015 model. And while the hopes are high for the lizard battery, I'm curious if anything is yet known about the reliability of the 2013/2014 battery. Has anyone lost any capacity bars yet?
When I asked the latter question last month I was told that LEAFfan had lost his first bar in his 2013. And there was another report of a 2013 bar loss:

Are 2013 and 2014 Leafs beta testers for the Lizard battery?

Re: Any degradation statistics on 2013 yet?

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:30 am
by LeftieBiker
I don't have an app to check health, but at about 8200 miles my 2013 started charging to 79% instead of 80%. That was over six months ago. At 9600 miles the situation is the same - 12 capacity bars but charging to 79%. I am sure that the first Summer I had the car, when it reached or surpassed 90F 12 times, is the culprit.

Re: Any degradation statistics on 2013 yet?

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:48 am
by Graffi
LeftieBiker wrote:I don't have an app to check health, but at about 8200 miles my 2013 started charging to 79% instead of 80%. That was over six months ago. At 9600 miles the situation is the same - 12 capacity bars but charging to 79%. I am sure that the first Summer I had the car, when it reached or surpassed 90F 12 times, is the culprit.
Our MY2013 has ALWAYS charged to 79%, so I do not see this as an issue. We are at just over One year and 16,000 miles and the total Gids remains about the same as when new.

Re: Any degradation statistics on 2013 yet?

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:30 pm
by cgaydos
dgpcolorado wrote:
adric22 wrote:We traded in our degraded 2011 about 6 months ago for a 2013. And the battery range has been fantastic. But I've been wondering what to expect with the 2013 models. Technically they've been on the road now for around 2 years. Have there been any reports of battery degradation on these models? I realize the battery was changed for 2013 and I also realize it was changed again for the 2015 model. And while the hopes are high for the lizard battery, I'm curious if anything is yet known about the reliability of the 2013/2014 battery. Has anyone lost any capacity bars yet?
When I asked the latter question last month I was told that LEAFfan had lost his first bar in his 2013. And there was another report of a 2013 bar loss:

Are 2013 and 2014 Leafs beta testers for the Lizard battery?
Two reports of model year 2013s losing one bar in October, 2014. Let's contrast that with October 2012. From the wiki:
Even though there have been 112 documented cases of battery capacity loss of one or more bars (as of 10/13/2012), only 58 capacity loss cases have been reported to Nissan to our knowledge. The geographic breakdown of these cases is: Arizona - 53, Texas - 23, California - 31, Oklahoma - 1, Hong Kong - 1, Spain - 1, Unknown - 2. The breakdown by number of capacity bars lost is: one bar - 72, two bars - 29, three bars - 9, four bars - 2.
I'd say that either there was a significant change in the 2013 Model Year LEAFs (possibly only in high temperature areas) or for reasons unknown people with 2013s just aren't mentioning the loss of capacity bars here or on other forums.

Re: Any degradation statistics on 2013 yet?

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:30 pm
by adric22
cgaydos wrote:[
I'd say that either there was a significant change in the 2013 Model Year LEAFs (possibly only in high temperature areas) or for reasons unknown people with 2013s just aren't mentioning the loss of capacity bars here or on other forums.
There should be a lot more 2013/2014 Leafs on the road than 2011/2012 considering the monthly sales volumes we've been seeing since the 2013 came on the market. If anyone has the exact breakdown, that would be interesting to see. So I would think of the 2013 battery was no more durable than the 2011/2012, there should be more cases of capacity loss. I am hoping (crossing my fingers) that the 2013 battery is overall better. I'm hoping that because the residual on our 2013 isn't bad so I might consider a purchase at the end of the lease if the capacity is holding up.

Re: Any degradation statistics on 2013 yet?

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:00 pm
by GRA
adric22 wrote:
cgaydos wrote:[
I'd say that either there was a significant change in the 2013 Model Year LEAFs (possibly only in high temperature areas) or for reasons unknown people with 2013s just aren't mentioning the loss of capacity bars here or on other forums.
There should be a lot more 2013/2014 Leafs on the road than 2011/2012 considering the monthly sales volumes we've been seeing since the 2013 came on the market. If anyone has the exact breakdown, that would be interesting to see. So I would think of the 2013 battery was no more durable than the 2011/2012, there should be more cases of capacity loss. I am hoping (crossing my fingers) that the 2013 battery is overall better. I'm hoping that because the residual on our 2013 isn't bad so I might consider a purchase at the end of the lease if the capacity is holding up.
You're assuming that the people who bought/leased 2013s rather than a previous MY are as technically involved as the earliest adopters were, and flock to forums such as this one at the same rate as the 2011/2012 people did. I don't think anyone has compiled the data that would tell us if that's the case, and until someone does, drawing any conclusions about 2013 vs. 2011/2012 degradation based solely on the # of reports here doesn't strike me as being very useful.

Re: Any degradation statistics on 2013 yet?

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:21 pm
by cgaydos
GRA wrote:
adric22 wrote:
cgaydos wrote:[
I'd say that either there was a significant change in the 2013 Model Year LEAFs (possibly only in high temperature areas) or for reasons unknown people with 2013s just aren't mentioning the loss of capacity bars here or on other forums.
There should be a lot more 2013/2014 Leafs on the road than 2011/2012 considering the monthly sales volumes we've been seeing since the 2013 came on the market. If anyone has the exact breakdown, that would be interesting to see. So I would think of the 2013 battery was no more durable than the 2011/2012, there should be more cases of capacity loss. I am hoping (crossing my fingers) that the 2013 battery is overall better. I'm hoping that because the residual on our 2013 isn't bad so I might consider a purchase at the end of the lease if the capacity is holding up.
You're assuming that the people who bought/leased 2013s rather than a previous MY are as technically involved as the earliest adopters were, and flock to forums such as this one at the same rate as the 2011/2012 people did. I don't think anyone has compiled the data that would tell us if that's the case, and until someone does, drawing any conclusions about 2013 vs. 2011/2012 degradation based solely on the # of reports here doesn't strike me as being very useful.
I agree we need more data before drawing conclusions - hence my wording above - but I think the evidence that we have strongly suggests the battery is better. Remember, during 2013 there were a lot of posts here from new 2013 buyers/leasors regarding the problem with the heater in those early 2013s. So we know that in 2013 new LEAFers did seek out this forum - and post - when they had a serious problem. That suggests that they would have posted if they had lost 2, 3, or 4 capacity bars as people were doing with the 2011s.

I just wish Nissan would provide full disclosure about what they know.

Re: Any degradation statistics on 2013 yet?

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:41 pm
by LeftieBiker
Our MY2013 has ALWAYS charged to 79%, so I do not see this as an issue. We are at just over One year and 16,000 miles and the total Gids remains about the same as when new.
I'd love to be reassured by that, but have you compared your GID count with others? Your car may have been 'pre-degraded' on the dealer's lot.