FireDude
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:20 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Aug 2013
Leaf Number: 311209

Re: Brakes Fail upon Powering On

Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:07 am

The problem miraculously disappeared for 10 months but it started happening again and I am sending it to the dealership again. This is a transient problem and they say if they cant recreate it they can't fix it. I have videoed the whole event again as it makes a very loud distinct sound and every warning light on the dash lights up. The last time in they said there were no error codes stored in the car's computer which I really find hard to believe.

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Nubo
Posts: 5387
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 11:01 am
Delivery Date: 31 Oct 2014
Location: Vallejo, CA

Re: Brakes Fail upon Powering On

Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:40 pm

FireDude wrote:...it makes a very loud distinct sound and every warning light on the dash lights up.

...The last time in they said there were no error codes stored in the car's computer which I really find hard to believe.
I'd find a different shop.

Image
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

tbr00
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:14 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Jul 2011
Leaf Number: 5409

Re: Brakes Fail upon Powering On

Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:36 pm

Just had something very similar to GerryAZ's post two posts previous happen on a 2011. The car was perfectly normal yesterday, charged overnight, then standing all day. My wife just went to go out in it, and just after turning the car on, she went to turn off the phone which had been left on with LeafSpy running. Unclear if it was related to pushing the power button the phone, but the car went into a weird state flashing almost everything on the dashboard. In addition the fan for the climate system was pulsing on and off.

Powered off and on a couple of times (exact details unclear at this point) and the car settled in a state where the Brake and ABS warning lights were on. It would go into drive, but on pressing the brake pedal there were unusual noises, unusual feel to the pedal, and very little braking effect.

I used LeafSpy to read out the DTCs and got:

C1109 0008 ABS Battery Voltage Abnormal BRC-75
>C118A 0109 AQBS E-Driven Int brake system BRC-124
C118C 0108 ABS EV/HEV System BRC-126
>C1A60 0109 BRAKE Control Module BR-39
C1A62 0108 BRAKE Control Mod Pwr Supply BR-53
C1A6E 0108 BRAKE EV/HEV System BR-146
P3101 00C4 EV/HEV VCM EVC-200
>P3180 00C3 EV/HEV HV Battery System EVC-249
>P317B 00C3 EV/HEV Motor System EVC-247
P0A8F 00C4 EV/HEV 14V Power Supply EVC-136
>P31E2 00C3 EV/HEV System Interlock Error EVC-308
P316A 00C4 EV/HEV Motor Speed EVC-233
P30FE 0008 HV BATTERY 12V Battery Voltage EVB-94
P0A1B 0008 MOTOR CONTROL Drive Motor A cntl Mod TMS-46
P0A8D 0008 MOTOR CONTROL 14V Power Supply EVC-132/TMS-63
U1232 0108 MULTI AV St Angle Sen Calib AV-88
P1895 0008 SHIFT Motor Speed TM-82
U1A05 0008 TCU USB Comm AV-199

After reading several posts in the forum relating to brake problems I checked the 12V battery. It read 12.57 with the car off. Turning on it dropped momentarily to about 12.3 than jumped up to around 14.4 as the system powered up, but still in the same state.

Turned off again for about a half hour, after which it powered up normally and everything seems to be working, but several settings were lost. We noticed this because it started playing the default tune when powered on, which had previously been turned off. A few other random settings seemed to be off, but most things had not changed.

Turned it off waited another half hour and checked the battery voltage again: 12.57. I pushed the power button without a foot on the brake pedal to get the accessory mode, then turned on the headlights. Battery dropped to about 12.2. After a few minutes I turned the car fully on. As before the voltage dipped momentarily then it came back to 14.4 and the car came up normally.

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Nubo
Posts: 5387
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 11:01 am
Delivery Date: 31 Oct 2014
Location: Vallejo, CA

Re: Brakes Fail upon Powering On

Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:39 am

tbr00 wrote:...After reading several posts in the forum relating to brake problems I checked the 12V battery. It read 12.57 with the car off. Turning on it dropped momentarily to about 12.3 than jumped up to around 14.4 as the system powered up, but still in the same state.

Turned off again for about a half hour, after which it powered up normally and everything seems to be working, but several settings were lost. We noticed this because it started playing the default tune when powered on, which had previously been turned off. A few other random settings seemed to be off, but most things had not changed.

Turned it off waited another half hour and checked the battery voltage again: 12.57. I pushed the power button without a foot on the brake pedal to get the accessory mode, then turned on the headlights. Battery dropped to about 12.2. After a few minutes I turned the car fully on. As before the voltage dipped momentarily then it came back to 14.4 and the car came up normally.
Check to make sure the battery terminal connections are clean and tight. A loose or corroded connection can result in temporary low-voltage condition.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

tbr00
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:14 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Jul 2011
Leaf Number: 5409

Re: Brakes Fail upon Powering On

Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:08 am

Clean and tight. I was measuring directly on the battery posts.

TimLee
Posts: 2811
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:40 am
Delivery Date: 17 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2026
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Re: Brakes Fail upon Powering On

Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:09 am

tbr00 wrote:... We noticed this because it started playing the default tune when powered on, which had previously been turned off. A few other random settings seemed to be off, but most things had not changed.

Turned it off waited another half hour and checked the battery voltage again: 12.57. I pushed the power button without a foot on the brake pedal to get the accessory mode, then turned on the headlights. Battery dropped to about 12.2. After a few minutes I turned the car fully on. As before the voltage dipped momentarily then it came back to 14.4 and the car came up normally.
Clearly a battery or battery connections or cables problem.

Voltage will not tell you much.

My 12V that failed likely due to water level getting low and a cell failing would show tolerable voltage.
But the instant you put any load on it voltage would sag badly to 10V or less.

I experienced failure to brake with it one day while in Neutral but never got the wierd noise while braking.
Did experience wierd high pitched alarm noise a few times when starting the LEAF that went away once DC to DC powered the 12V back up.

The first thing to try is replace the 12V battery.
The LEAF is extremely dangerous with a bad 12V battery :shock:

Tim Lee
Chattanooga, TN

Man. Date: 03/10/11, VIN # 2026
Delivered 05-17-2011
Blue Ocean, 2011 SL-eTec

User avatar
Nubo
Posts: 5387
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 11:01 am
Delivery Date: 31 Oct 2014
Location: Vallejo, CA

Re: Brakes Fail upon Powering On

Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:50 am

tbr00 wrote:Clean and tight. I was measuring directly on the battery posts.
Good for getting the battery's voltage, but also measure between the positive clamp, and a ground point to see what the car is receiving.
TimLee wrote:Voltage will not tell you much.

My 12V that failed likely due to water level getting low and a cell failing would show tolerable voltage.
But the instant you put any load on it voltage would sag badly to 10V or less.
+1. I kept chasing what I thought must be a drain, but in reality my AGM battery had dried out. It would charge up and hold 12.6V, even resting overnight. But it was just a surface charge. When I finally put a load on it (about 17A load), it dropped below 10.5 volts in less than a minute.

I had 25 error codes. :)
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

XeonPony
Posts: 316
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:58 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 413826
Location: Yorkton, sask, Canada

Re: Brakes Fail upon Powering On

Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:06 am

at -16c I had a slew of similar issues, but the breaks worked I just could not put it in "gear"

Smart key not identified
TCM error
ABS error
VCM error and such,

after charging on L2 and care fully disconnecting it, it worked again.

When at the dealer ship the guy told me of another leaf owner who did have a breaking issue, and they replaced the traction control module and had not heard back from the guy since.

My leaf is a 2013 SV, I got it in November 2013 and it was only in the winter of 2014 when I saw the issues.

When it was at -60c (Real temp not the fake wind chill bs) it showed non of these issues.

IF it happens again, I'll imeadietly take 12v readings.
2013 SV Leaf, Level 2 charger, so far all works great! 130Km daily, 100% charge at night on 240 then trickle charge for 8H durring the day on 120v.

Level 2 charge starts at 130am environmental starts at 6am to 25c for a toasty warm defrosted car!

TimLee
Posts: 2811
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:40 am
Delivery Date: 17 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2026
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Re: Brakes Fail upon Powering On

Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:16 pm

XeonPony wrote:...
IF it happens again, I'll imeadietly take 12v readings.
But voltage often doesn't tell you much.

Need a capacity testing instrument, and even they can be wrong depending on how the battery has failed.

Tim Lee
Chattanooga, TN

Man. Date: 03/10/11, VIN # 2026
Delivered 05-17-2011
Blue Ocean, 2011 SL-eTec

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 2257
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Brakes Fail upon Powering On

Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:34 pm

tbr00 wrote:Just had something very similar to GerryAZ's post two posts previous happen on a 2011. The car was perfectly normal yesterday, charged overnight, then standing all day. My wife just went to go out in it, and just after turning the car on, she went to turn off the phone which had been left on with LeafSpy running. Unclear if it was related to pushing the power button the phone, but the car went into a weird state flashing almost everything on the dashboard. In addition the fan for the climate system was pulsing on and off.

Powered off and on a couple of times (exact details unclear at this point) and the car settled in a state where the Brake and ABS warning lights were on. It would go into drive, but on pressing the brake pedal there were unusual noises, unusual feel to the pedal, and very little braking effect.

I used LeafSpy to read out the DTCs and got:

C1109 0008 ABS Battery Voltage Abnormal BRC-75
>C118A 0109 AQBS E-Driven Int brake system BRC-124
C118C 0108 ABS EV/HEV System BRC-126
>C1A60 0109 BRAKE Control Module BR-39
C1A62 0108 BRAKE Control Mod Pwr Supply BR-53
C1A6E 0108 BRAKE EV/HEV System BR-146
P3101 00C4 EV/HEV VCM EVC-200
>P3180 00C3 EV/HEV HV Battery System EVC-249
>P317B 00C3 EV/HEV Motor System EVC-247
P0A8F 00C4 EV/HEV 14V Power Supply EVC-136
>P31E2 00C3 EV/HEV System Interlock Error EVC-308
P316A 00C4 EV/HEV Motor Speed EVC-233
P30FE 0008 HV BATTERY 12V Battery Voltage EVB-94
P0A1B 0008 MOTOR CONTROL Drive Motor A cntl Mod TMS-46
P0A8D 0008 MOTOR CONTROL 14V Power Supply EVC-132/TMS-63
U1232 0108 MULTI AV St Angle Sen Calib AV-88
P1895 0008 SHIFT Motor Speed TM-82
U1A05 0008 TCU USB Comm AV-199

After reading several posts in the forum relating to brake problems I checked the 12V battery. It read 12.57 with the car off. Turning on it dropped momentarily to about 12.3 than jumped up to around 14.4 as the system powered up, but still in the same state.

Turned off again for about a half hour, after which it powered up normally and everything seems to be working, but several settings were lost. We noticed this because it started playing the default tune when powered on, which had previously been turned off. A few other random settings seemed to be off, but most things had not changed.

Turned it off waited another half hour and checked the battery voltage again: 12.57. I pushed the power button without a foot on the brake pedal to get the accessory mode, then turned on the headlights. Battery dropped to about 12.2. After a few minutes I turned the car fully on. As before the voltage dipped momentarily then it came back to 14.4 and the car came up normally.
Your list of DTC codes all look like low voltage on 12-volt battery. I had DTC error codes regarding CAN bus communications which I could not clear without disconnecting the 12-volt battery. I strongly suggest you check battery terminal connections and load capacity of 12-volt battery. I suspect your 12-volt battery is on its last legs.

Gerry
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL+ purchased 8/10/2019

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