My Nissan Leaf does not go as far as promised

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alembic42 said:
*I never had a gasoline car whose MPG went down by half when conditions weren't "ideal"...
Well, that's the point, you did not buy a gasoline car.

BEVs have highly variable range, and every BEV will get about twice the range (or more) in favorable conditions than unfavorable.

You did not mention when you get the Low and Very low battery warnings, just the miles remaining display, which I'd suggest you learn to ignore.

My nine-capacity bar 2011 with ~49k miles now has (on average) almost a third of its total capacity (~5.3-5.6 kWh) below the Low battery warning.

And it still has about 120 mile of total range, driving at slow speed on a hot day, and less than half that range driving at freeway speeds in the winter.
 
We understand your anger, but the way you are expressing it isn't going to do anything but hurt your case. Try to express yourself calmly even if you don't feel that way...

Now. A 2012 SL with what sounds like barely 11 bars of capacity should be able to go more than 40 miles in warm weather. 40 miles does sound about right for typical Winter weather, with less range if frigid outside. Here are some things you can do to increase your range:

* Inflate the tires to 40-42psi. The factory label suggests 36, but this is far too low.

* Use Eco Mode. I believe that this is activated via the shifter on your car - others will confirm or correct that. Eco mode, combined with gentler acceleration, will increase your range a bit.

* Don't drive faster than 60MPH unless you have to, and can afford to take a hit on range. The Leaf isn't very aerodynamic at highway speeds, and the faster you go, the worse your range gets. If you can drive 55MPH, do it.

We also suggest that you get the LeafSpy app, plus a bluetooth wireless error code reader that is compatible with your car - someone else can give you that info. This will let you read the car's actual capacity, and it will even estimate real world range for you. The 'Guess O Meter' on the dash isn't much help, and your Leaf doesn't have the State Of Charge display that later years have. Being able to see your actual state of charge and actual (estimated) range will help avoid you getting stranded again. You may also want to get a 240 volt charging station, as the car does charge only at the rate of 5% per hour on 120 volts.

That dealership sounds horrible, but not, unfortunately, unusually bad.
 
Rick,

You might get a better response if you edit all the F***ING out of your post. Really, we don't need to be subjected to that.
 
alembic42 said:
Hi,
*I drive as fast as everybody else on the freeway. Just like I always have in my gasoline cars.
*I never had a gasoline car whose MPG went down by half when conditions weren't "ideal".
You can't drive it like a gasoline car. If you do, you will not be happy. If you haven't figured that out after 15K miles, you really should sell it and move on.

I do not find it a stretch that the dealership might have lead you astray by either telling you falsehoods or misinformation. Buying a used LEAF is the perfect example of caveat emptor.
 
Rule #1 of Dealership Club:
Expect the dealer to lie to you
Rule #2 of Dealership Club:
Expect the dealer to lie to you
Rule #3 of Dealership Club....

It's a lesson we all eventually learn. When I bought my 2012 Leaf, the dealership lied to me as well, saying I could get 100 miles out of the car per charge. It told them there was no way it would get 100 miles a charge. I can squeeze about 65 miles out of mine if I'm driving quite conservatively and 50 miles at 62mph.

Car salesmen are like mini-politicians, they will tell you anything to make it through election day (the sale) after which, they completely forget who you are until it is election day again.
 
As an additional note, when I bought my Leaf, I used Google Maps to find a non-highway route that I could take and only go 45mph. It subtracts 2 miles from my commute each way, but adds 10 minutes of commute time. So instead of 20 minutes of stressful commuting, I now have 30 minutes of stress free commuting. This may not be an option if you're in a big city, but if you're ever anxious about the range, taking city streets will increase the range a good bit.

Check out Plugshare, see if there is some place near work that you can plug in. If not, see if your work will let you trickle charge while you're at work using a 120v outlet.

I don't think there will be a way to get that dealership to make you whole. The gave it to you on the wrong end, and there's likely little to be done about it. It stinks, but I think we've all gotten the shaft from a car dealership once before, especially when buying used. I bought a 1994 Honda Accord 2 years ago, drove it off the lot, and within 10 miles the clutch started slipping. Let me tell you, I was absolutely furious, but there was nothing to be done. Fortunately I was able to adjust the clutch and it still works as a backup car for me, but stealerships don't care.
 
alembic42 said:
So what did you do about it? What did they do for you to make it right? Or do you think that you and I should just let it go and be happy we were treated that way?
Oh, I knew they were feeding me a line. I knew more about the Leaf than they did. (Toyota dealership with a used Nissan.)
My answer to the dealership problem is my next car is a Tesla Model 3. :D
 
I haven't read the OP's entire post yet, but since the 100 mile claim is there, the dealer should be shamed at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=13264.

Keep in mind that EPA range ratings are not and NEVER were promises. They are results of running on standardized tests. https://priuschat.com/threads/car-and-driver-the-truth-about-epa-city-highway-mpg-estimates.67235/ has details of the various cycles and was written before the Leaf existed. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=464239#p464239 is additional info.

Look also at https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/how_tested.shtml and https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml. Notice the highest average speed of any of the test cycles is 48.4 mph?

I took this poll long ago: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=11201.

Durandal said:
Rule #1 of Dealership Club:
Expect the dealer to lie to you
Rule #2 of Dealership Club:
Expect the dealer to lie to you
Rule #3 of Dealership Club....

It's a lesson we all eventually learn. When I bought my 2012 Leaf, the dealership lied to me as well, saying I could get 100 miles out of the car per charge.
They deserve shaming in the above thread, as well.
 
The only way I see of getting any satisfaction or revenge from the dealership is if they made a false promise in the sales contract. If they wrote down that it has X number of miles range, you may be able to use that. If they described the charging cable as being 120/240 volts, you may be able to get one that actually is (or have yours upgraded) and make them pay. If your state has a good Attorney General, you may be able to put pressure on them through the AG's office to give a partial refund. On the whole, though, this just illustrates what is wrong with the whole dealership model of selling cars. It really is horrible.

If you try going 60MPH in the right lane (or the center lane where there are off-ramps) you may find a few Priuses and smaller cars joining you, making it easier to go that speed.
 
Hey OP,

How familiar are you with how regenerative braking works on the leaf? Do you try and brake to maximize this, or do you just brake like a normal car?

Aggressive driving and firm braking will mostly use the friction brakes (wasting all your kinetic energy). Slower steadier braking will use more regenerative braking, putting that energy back into the battery. I find ECO-mode particularly good for driving in traffic on a freeway, as I can drive with just my right foot, easing off the gas pedal when traffic is slowing. All this energy is being regenerated back into the battery.

Also, are you using the climate timer, particularly in winter?
 
I'm always baffled when anyone relies on an auto dealership to do anything more complicated than exchanging a cashier's check for an automobile. If I had a nickel for all the blatantly erroneous information fed to me by car salesmen over the years I could use all my nickels to get myself a brand new Leaf.

The EPA range for your car, brand new, is 73 miles in ideal weather with minimal HVAC use. This is published all over the internet, on Nissan's website, on the car's original window sticker, on fueleconomy.gov, etc. So this is your upper ceiling on range, legally. No matter what the dealer said to you that's what the world's most perfect 2012 Leaf is capable of in perfect conditions, according to the EPA.

Your car is now missing a capacity bar meaning that it has lost at least 16% of its battery capacity. This implies that your upper ceiling on range today is about 61 miles (EPA rating, ideal weather, minimal HVAC).

If you want to "make the dealer hurt" or whatever, I'm assuming you mean to do so on legal grounds. Well, even in its degraded state, if a lawyer took your car out on a flat closed circuit tomorrow with properly inflated tires and set the cruise at a continuous 35 MPH with no HVAC and a with full charge in warm weather, it certainly would get 100+ miles of range. So can your car actually move itself 100 miles on a full charge? It sure can, with the right conditions. It's meaningless to you, but the car can propel itself 100 miles on a charge under absurd circumstances.

My opinion here is that unless you have something in writing from the dealer guaranteeing that your Leaf is somehow unique and will achieve 73, 84, or 100 miles of range with your driving style and patterns, that you have little legal recourse.

It's unfortunate, but I believe you put too much trust into the people with a vested interest in selling you a car while simultaneously doing too little to educate yourself about said car beforehand. Most of the people selling you the Leaf have probably never driven one more than ten miles. They may not have intentionally lied, they might just not understand their product and that's not a surprise given the blistering staff turnover at auto dealers. Nor do they care, as they'll forget about you about 90 seconds after you sign on the dotted line.

It's pretty common knowledge that early Leaf batteries degrade quickly, that the early Leaf heaters use a lot of power, and that the EPA published range (ideal, new) is 73 miles.

I'm of the opinion that the dealer is likely under little to no legal obligation to do anything for you, and if they do choose to try and improve your situation it's entirely due to goodwill on their part. You're at their mercy.

What you can do for yourself, given you got yourself into this predicament, is to make use of some tools widely used by the Leaf community to get the most use out of their cars. Get yourself Leafspy and learn how to use it. Make sure you have energy saving tires fitted and that they're filled at or above the rated pressure. Look for alternate routes that can reduce energy consumption. Etc. And the next time you go to buy a product in a segment you're unfamiliar with, know more about that product than anyone who works at the facility trying to sell it to you. It's a crummy system, and that's the only way I've found to protect myself.
 
My guess is, forget about getting anything out of the dealership at this point. You might have had a chance to legally force them to buy it back within a week after driving it off the lot, but you been driving it for almost a year... You can't just use a product for a year, and expect to return it if you don't like it anymore.

For the sound of it, you seem to want to drive it just as a gas car. Ok, that's fine. But even with new battery, driving it that way will not get you 80 miles. Maybe 70 miles with no heat on a flat road with 100% new battery. But in few years the new battery will degrade to 80% and your 70 miles would become just 56 miles...

Just accept that you made a huge mistake by buying this type of a car and move on with your life.
 
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