alembic42
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:07 am
Delivery Date: 14 Feb 2015
Leaf Number: 018686

Re: My Nissan Leaf does not go as far as promised

Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:55 pm

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Last edited by alembic42 on Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

Durandal
Posts: 355
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:55 am
Delivery Date: 22 Sep 2016
Leaf Number: 025018
Location: Central Arkansas

Re: My Nissan Leaf does not go as far as promised

Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:01 pm

As an additional note, when I bought my Leaf, I used Google Maps to find a non-highway route that I could take and only go 45mph. It subtracts 2 miles from my commute each way, but adds 10 minutes of commute time. So instead of 20 minutes of stressful commuting, I now have 30 minutes of stress free commuting. This may not be an option if you're in a big city, but if you're ever anxious about the range, taking city streets will increase the range a good bit.

Check out Plugshare, see if there is some place near work that you can plug in. If not, see if your work will let you trickle charge while you're at work using a 120v outlet.

I don't think there will be a way to get that dealership to make you whole. The gave it to you on the wrong end, and there's likely little to be done about it. It stinks, but I think we've all gotten the shaft from a car dealership once before, especially when buying used. I bought a 1994 Honda Accord 2 years ago, drove it off the lot, and within 10 miles the clutch started slipping. Let me tell you, I was absolutely furious, but there was nothing to be done. Fortunately I was able to adjust the clutch and it still works as a backup car for me, but stealerships don't care.
Pulled the trigger on going EV on 10/2016 with a 2012 Leaf SL, traded it in and now I'm a very happy Tesla Model 3 owner.

Durandal
Posts: 355
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:55 am
Delivery Date: 22 Sep 2016
Leaf Number: 025018
Location: Central Arkansas

Re: My Nissan Leaf does not go as far as promised

Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:03 pm

alembic42 wrote:So what did you do about it? What did they do for you to make it right? Or do you think that you and I should just let it go and be happy we were treated that way?
Oh, I knew they were feeding me a line. I knew more about the Leaf than they did. (Toyota dealership with a used Nissan.)
My answer to the dealership problem is my next car is a Tesla Model 3. :D
Pulled the trigger on going EV on 10/2016 with a 2012 Leaf SL, traded it in and now I'm a very happy Tesla Model 3 owner.

cwerdna
Posts: 9739
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: My Nissan Leaf does not go as far as promised

Mon Oct 31, 2016 2:38 pm

I haven't read the OP's entire post yet, but since the 100 mile claim is there, the dealer should be shamed at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=13264.

Keep in mind that EPA range ratings are not and NEVER were promises. They are results of running on standardized tests. https://priuschat.com/threads/car-and-d ... tes.67235/ has details of the various cycles and was written before the Leaf existed. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 39#p464239 is additional info.

Look also at https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/how_tested.shtml and https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml. Notice the highest average speed of any of the test cycles is 48.4 mph?

I took this poll long ago: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=11201.
Durandal wrote:Rule #1 of Dealership Club:
Expect the dealer to lie to you
Rule #2 of Dealership Club:
Expect the dealer to lie to you
Rule #3 of Dealership Club....

It's a lesson we all eventually learn. When I bought my 2012 Leaf, the dealership lied to me as well, saying I could get 100 miles out of the car per charge.
They deserve shaming in the above thread, as well.
Last edited by cwerdna on Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 13264
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: My Nissan Leaf does not go as far as promised

Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:14 pm

The only way I see of getting any satisfaction or revenge from the dealership is if they made a false promise in the sales contract. If they wrote down that it has X number of miles range, you may be able to use that. If they described the charging cable as being 120/240 volts, you may be able to get one that actually is (or have yours upgraded) and make them pay. If your state has a good Attorney General, you may be able to put pressure on them through the AG's office to give a partial refund. On the whole, though, this just illustrates what is wrong with the whole dealership model of selling cars. It really is horrible.

If you try going 60MPH in the right lane (or the center lane where there are off-ramps) you may find a few Priuses and smaller cars joining you, making it easier to go that speed.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Aussie
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:30 am
Location: Dallas

Re: My Nissan Leaf does not go as far as promised

Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:52 pm

Hey OP,

How familiar are you with how regenerative braking works on the leaf? Do you try and brake to maximize this, or do you just brake like a normal car?

Aggressive driving and firm braking will mostly use the friction brakes (wasting all your kinetic energy). Slower steadier braking will use more regenerative braking, putting that energy back into the battery. I find ECO-mode particularly good for driving in traffic on a freeway, as I can drive with just my right foot, easing off the gas pedal when traffic is slowing. All this energy is being regenerated back into the battery.

Also, are you using the climate timer, particularly in winter?

alembic42
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:07 am
Delivery Date: 14 Feb 2015
Leaf Number: 018686

Re: My Nissan Leaf does not go as far as promised

Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:11 pm

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Last edited by alembic42 on Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

mtndrew1
Posts: 318
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:52 am
Location: Gardena CA

Re: My Nissan Leaf does not go as far as promised

Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:45 pm

I'm always baffled when anyone relies on an auto dealership to do anything more complicated than exchanging a cashier's check for an automobile. If I had a nickel for all the blatantly erroneous information fed to me by car salesmen over the years I could use all my nickels to get myself a brand new Leaf.

The EPA range for your car, brand new, is 73 miles in ideal weather with minimal HVAC use. This is published all over the internet, on Nissan's website, on the car's original window sticker, on fueleconomy.gov, etc. So this is your upper ceiling on range, legally. No matter what the dealer said to you that's what the world's most perfect 2012 Leaf is capable of in perfect conditions, according to the EPA.

Your car is now missing a capacity bar meaning that it has lost at least 16% of its battery capacity. This implies that your upper ceiling on range today is about 61 miles (EPA rating, ideal weather, minimal HVAC).

If you want to "make the dealer hurt" or whatever, I'm assuming you mean to do so on legal grounds. Well, even in its degraded state, if a lawyer took your car out on a flat closed circuit tomorrow with properly inflated tires and set the cruise at a continuous 35 MPH with no HVAC and a with full charge in warm weather, it certainly would get 100+ miles of range. So can your car actually move itself 100 miles on a full charge? It sure can, with the right conditions. It's meaningless to you, but the car can propel itself 100 miles on a charge under absurd circumstances.

My opinion here is that unless you have something in writing from the dealer guaranteeing that your Leaf is somehow unique and will achieve 73, 84, or 100 miles of range with your driving style and patterns, that you have little legal recourse.

It's unfortunate, but I believe you put too much trust into the people with a vested interest in selling you a car while simultaneously doing too little to educate yourself about said car beforehand. Most of the people selling you the Leaf have probably never driven one more than ten miles. They may not have intentionally lied, they might just not understand their product and that's not a surprise given the blistering staff turnover at auto dealers. Nor do they care, as they'll forget about you about 90 seconds after you sign on the dotted line.

It's pretty common knowledge that early Leaf batteries degrade quickly, that the early Leaf heaters use a lot of power, and that the EPA published range (ideal, new) is 73 miles.

I'm of the opinion that the dealer is likely under little to no legal obligation to do anything for you, and if they do choose to try and improve your situation it's entirely due to goodwill on their part. You're at their mercy.

What you can do for yourself, given you got yourself into this predicament, is to make use of some tools widely used by the Leaf community to get the most use out of their cars. Get yourself Leafspy and learn how to use it. Make sure you have energy saving tires fitted and that they're filled at or above the rated pressure. Look for alternate routes that can reduce energy consumption. Etc. And the next time you go to buy a product in a segment you're unfamiliar with, know more about that product than anyone who works at the facility trying to sell it to you. It's a crummy system, and that's the only way I've found to protect myself.
2018 Tesla Model 3 Long Range (100% charge @ 30k miles shows 1.6% degradation)

2013 Nissan Leaf S + QC sold with warranty pack replacement (~35% degradation @ ~40k miles)

2015 Kia Soul EV+ Lease returned 10/14/17 45,000 miles w/ 13.8% degradation.

AntronX
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 12:17 pm
Delivery Date: 14 May 2016

Re: My Nissan Leaf does not go as far as promised

Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:01 pm

My guess is, forget about getting anything out of the dealership at this point. You might have had a chance to legally force them to buy it back within a week after driving it off the lot, but you been driving it for almost a year... You can't just use a product for a year, and expect to return it if you don't like it anymore.

For the sound of it, you seem to want to drive it just as a gas car. Ok, that's fine. But even with new battery, driving it that way will not get you 80 miles. Maybe 70 miles with no heat on a flat road with 100% new battery. But in few years the new battery will degrade to 80% and your 70 miles would become just 56 miles...

Just accept that you made a huge mistake by buying this type of a car and move on with your life.
Last edited by AntronX on Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

alembic42
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:07 am
Delivery Date: 14 Feb 2015
Leaf Number: 018686

Re: My Nissan Leaf does not go as far as promised

Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:04 pm

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Last edited by alembic42 on Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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