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Re: My Nissan Leaf does not go as far as promised

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:36 pm
by LeftieBiker
This is why you need two things. First, LeafSpy. That reads the pack in both percentage of charge, IIRC, and in "GIDs" which are much smaller units of energy. It's like the difference between a semi-broken gas gauge and a digital one that reads, precisely, in pints of gasoline left. Your car also has some hidden range below the point where the GOM shuts down, and LeafSpy lets you use that range.

Second, the heater Off switch. Maybe the 2012 came with one, but I don't think so. You need to be able to stop the heater from running when it isn't needed, and wasting power. They are sold through a site that is linked here, somewhere - someone will tell you - and are easy to install.

I have rednecks here, except we call them "woodchucks." I still find it possible to travel at 60MPH on the freeway, even with a posted limit of 65MPH, as long as I do it in the ways least likely to offend other drivers. It's also best to find other cars wiling to form a little 'slow pack.' That's why I mentioned tractor-trailers. I understand what you're saying about group behavior, but when the posted limit is 55, it should be possible to do 60. You won't be popular, but if, for example, you use your hazard flashers as needed, they will leave you alone. Or at least as much as they leave alone any non-redneck vehicle...

Re: My Nissan Leaf does not go as far as promised

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:46 pm
by mtndrew1
alembic42 wrote:guys, i get this and i don't understand what leafspy is about but i'll get it and try to learn.

i did some research. did you? how am i supposed to have known about the range being a lie? they just publish a number and back then i didn't find anything to contradict it, just enthusiastic people talking about how they got even more.

But here's the thing: I spent $16000 on this thing, barely used. Did you buy yours new? How are you NOT twice as pissed as I am? How have you not burned down the dealership? I don't understand how your expectations are so lax, when you got screwed even harder. Is it just a toy to you? do you have other cars? My wife and I have two cars and the leaf is one of them. There are lots of times that I can't go places I want to go. I can't afford to sell it cause I don't have 10 grand to put into the process. Seriously I just want the thing I bought and paid for.

How are you so lassiez faire about the whole thing when Nissan just burned you for even more money? I really mean that? Aren't you just absolutely livid? Or somehow you don't mind? Can I get a real answer here?

You guys are real EV owners right? Aren't we all in this together? Aren't we all getting seriously screwed out of tons of real money? This thing was supposed to SAVE me money, not this! How do you pay for this?? Do you just have a shit ton of money and you don't care? Honestly?
I have bought thirteen new cars and one used car in my life. In every single event the dealer told me some tall tale about a feature or performance or capability that was just utter nonsense. I've learned along the way that, by and large, car dealers are staffed by people who would otherwise be working in fast food or at a big box retailer. In other words, not people who are hungry to learn about their product and do an admirable job at pairing the right product with the right person, but people who need to make a sale RIGHT NOW. They will generally use any means to do so.

In every review from a reputable source on the 2011-2012 Leaf, none of the reviewers ever exceeded the 73 mile EPA rating. Car and driver, road and track, edmunds, consumer reports, autoblog, etc etc. Furhermore I have never personally bought a car that exceeded its combined EPA gas mileage. So 73 miles for a ceiling is a pretty fair assumption with even the lightest googling. Feeling that 37% more range than what the EPA and the window sticker say is plausible because the salescritter says so isn't good car buying practice. They lied but even cursory research would have made that apparent.

So we have a bunch of reputable organizations not even meeting, let alone exceeding EPA, we have the public EPA figures, and you chose to listen to the used car salesman's input. This is why I have little sympathy. You did poor research and expected more than the number on the sticker. Way, way more. 37% more.

So you're stuck in this crappy situation where you overpaid for a car and believed the salesman over trusted outlets. It's been a year now. You can hem and haw and make all kinds of noise I guess, but I don't know that it will get you anywhere monetarily. I would certainly find it a frustrating use of energy and time. There is nothing the dealer can do for love or money to turn a 2012 Leaf into a 100 mile car even if they wanted to short of exchanging it for a 2016 model and taking a $20,000 hit to their bottom line. I find that a very unlikely outcome.

The people on this forum can help you get the most out of what's in your driveway . The '12 GOM is awful and leafspy will be a massive improvement, giving you confidence to access to a much larger portion of the pack's usable capacity. Your driving style and tire pressure can be adjusted. The heater override can be fitted. These are all inexpensive ways to legitimately improve the usability of your car. That's where I'd divert my energy and then take the lesson to never trust a car dealer again.

Me? I went in knowing more about the product and its competitors than any of the dealers. I expected a max of EPA rated range and expected it to slowly decline over time. Those assumptions have proven accurate and I'm thrilled with my car because I knew exactly what I was getting into.

Re: My Nissan Leaf does not go as far as promised

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:44 pm
by smkettner
Dang this is the best rant I have read in years :D

Anyway many of us have been living this since early 2011. Right from the get go these cars did not perform as Nissan promised except in perfectly ideal conditions, no accessories, and driving at a snails pace.

I traded for a RAV4-EV and guess what..... GOM says 140 miles, put the air conditioner on, drive 140 miles at close to 65mph no problem. RAV has its issues but it actually does what it says.

https://www.carmax.com/search#Distance= ... &Zip=92652

Re: My Nissan Leaf does not go as far as promised

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:17 pm
by cwerdna
LeftieBiker wrote:This is why you need two things. First, LeafSpy. That reads the pack in both percentage of charge, IIRC, and in "GIDs" which are much smaller units of energy. It's like the difference between a semi-broken gas gauge and a digital one that reads, precisely, in pints of gasoline left. Your car also has some hidden range below the point where the GOM shuts down, and LeafSpy lets you use that range.
+1 The instrumentation on the '11 and '12 Leaf is crap and leads to unnecessary range anxiety.
LeftieBiker wrote: Second, the heater Off switch. Maybe the 2012 came with one, but I don't think so. You need to be able to stop the heater from running when it isn't needed, and wasting power. They are sold through a site that is linked here, somewhere - someone will tell you - and are easy to install.
The heater on/off button did not exist on the '12. It was a new feature starting with '13.

Re: My Nissan Leaf does not go as far as promised

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:21 pm
by LeftieBiker
That's what I thought, but my memory is going South. Did they change anything from 2011 to 2012, aside from making the seat and wheel heaters standard?

Re: My Nissan Leaf does not go as far as promised

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:56 pm
by cwerdna
LeftieBiker wrote:That's what I thought, but my memory is going South. Did they change anything from 2011 to 2012, aside from making the seat and wheel heaters standard?
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/07/19/2012 ... equipment/

Re: My Nissan Leaf does not go as far as promised

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:12 pm
by cwerdna
mtndrew1 wrote: In every review from a reputable source on the 2011-2012 Leaf, none of the reviewers ever exceeded the 73 mile EPA rating. Car and driver, road and track, edmunds, consumer reports, autoblog, etc
http://web.archive.org/web/201302011453 ... world.html achieved 81 miles on a 2011 Leaf with 2 miles left on the GOM.

http://www.edmunds.com/nissan/leaf/2011 ... r-end.html achieved 132.0 miles at 35 mph.

As mentioned earlier, those runs at 75 mph result in crazy high energy consumption. Of course range will be terrible at that speed.
LeftieBiker wrote:This is why you need two things. First, LeafSpy. That reads the pack in both percentage of charge, IIRC, and in "GIDs" which are much smaller units of energy. It's like the difference between a semi-broken gas gauge and a digital one that reads, precisely, in pints of gasoline left. Your car also has some hidden range below the point where the GOM shuts down, and LeafSpy lets you use that range.
Yep. Another nice feature of Leaf Spy it has a smarter GOM. You can specify until LBW, VLBW or 5% battery and has +/- buttons. If you need to go say 50 miles, you adjust the miles/kWh via the +/- buttons until you arrive at something higher than a computed guess of 50 miles, say 55 miles. The miles/kWh it tells you there is the efficiency level in miles/kWh (kinda like miles per gallon) you'll need to achieve in your car in order to make it to that 55 miles w/some battery remaining. You probably don't want to cut it closer than VLBW.

Re: My Nissan Leaf does not go as far as promised

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:33 pm
by Deoc
I bought my 2012 Leaf on March 2015, i was able to do 118 miles on one charge, under the best conditions, but nobody drives like that, on the freeway i can berly get 60 miles, the guess o meter is useless the bars aren't equal the last 4 bars are about %50 of the battery, either you get used to the car or sell it and move one, salesman will always lie, before you buy a car do a research and never believe the salesman......

Re: My Nissan Leaf does not go as far as promised

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:11 am
by cwerdna
Sorry to hear about your terrible experience.
alembic42 wrote: Every single thing here is a complete lie. As I'm sure everyone on this forum is aware, the 2012 Nissan Leaf does NOT go 84, 100, or 73 miles. In reality its range is about 40 miles in the summer and even worse in the winter, and THAT'S IF YOU DRIVE WITH THE HEAT OFF WHEN IT'S ZERO :o DEGREES OUT.
People have gone further than 100 miles on a charge on 24 kWh Leafs, albeit not in the cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=7022.
alembic42 wrote: I had no idea that this car, said to go 100 miles, would really go less than 50 miles in reality. WHO THE HELL KNOWS THAT KIND OF THING??????
Re: the bolded part, yes, complete BS. NO dealer should EVER tell a potential Leaf buyer/lessee in the US who is unfamiliar with EVs "100 miles" of range for a 24 kWh Leaf, even w/a brand new battery. However, if you'd come here on MNL before to ask whether the Leaf was suitable for your commute and driving speeds (e.g. 75 mph), then we would've been able to give you a better answer.
alembic42 wrote: The people who sell electric cars need to tell you what the hell you're getting. These people didn't. They just lied and lied and lied. And lied and lied some more.
Unfortunately, your story isn't the first horror story I've heard and certainly won't be the last. :(
alembic42 wrote:Mtndrew1, I find your approachdepressing . Like basically you're saying it's fine for these people to lie lie lie lie, like there's nothing criminal there. Like there's nothing wildly immoral and abusive there. Why do you act like there's nothing wrong with this corporation behaving this way?
The dealer obviously misled you, but re: the corporation (If you're referring to Nissan), keep in mind that in most states (and probably yours), state franchise laws prohibit automakers from owning dealers. So, automakers have limited control.

Re: My Nissan Leaf does not go as far as promised

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:05 am
by Durandal
cwerdna wrote: The dealer obviously misled you, but re: the corporation (If you're referring to Nissan), keep in mind that in most states (and probably yours), state franchise laws prohibit automakers from owning dealers. So, automakers have limited control.
That's by design. See, the franchise can lie, cheat, and steal, but it's not Nissan's, GM's, Ford's, etc fault. More reasons why the franchise model needs to die. I knew what I was getting into when I bought my 2012 Leaf for $6,000 but most people didn't. My car's CarFax history shows that the prior two owners owned the car for ONE MONTH each. That's two people who probably were ruined on owning an EV for a long time. The last guy who owned the Leaf before me, registered it and paid $10,850 for it when I paid $6,000. That last guy got ripped off bad. I paid $500 more than the wholesale price on the car, which I was pleased with, but not everybody does their research. Our other Nissan we own, a Versa, we would not have purchased if I had done further research on it to find out about all the QC problems with their transmissions.