powersurge
Posts: 1503
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: My Nissan Leaf does not go as far as promised

Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:43 am

This rant from "alembic42" has certainly been enlightening but also disturbing. According to the facts I have read, this user in 2015 bought a 4 year old used car, owned the car for almost 2 years, and put about 24K miles on it.... The particular issues are really not important at this time....

At this point the writer states that he/she does not like the car and is using very angry, and violence-prone language, including, "Making them pay". I think that this person is unrealistic about the car they bought, the costs of owning a car, and feels entitled to have all of their complaints taken care of by "someone".

A person who writes like this would either not have enough to do in their daily life to be so angry, or may have emotional issues that would require some medical, or psychiatric intervention... Their putting such feelings into writing in such a way also places them in legal jeopardy of Libel and/ or legal action from the dealer for of fear of this person being physically dangerous.

I strongly suggest that "alembic42" either "put a lid on it", or seek some counseling by a trusted person.

mtndrew1
Posts: 318
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:52 am
Location: Gardena CA

Re: My Nissan Leaf does not go as far as promised

Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:12 am

cwerdna wrote:
mtndrew1 wrote: In every review from a reputable source on the 2011-2012 Leaf, none of the reviewers ever exceeded the 73 mile EPA rating. Car and driver, road and track, edmunds, consumer reports, autoblog, etc
http://web.archive.org/web/201302011453 ... world.html achieved 81 miles on a 2011 Leaf with 2 miles left on the GOM.

http://www.edmunds.com/nissan/leaf/2011 ... r-end.html achieved 132.0 miles at 35 mph.
I stand corrected on the Edmunds one. It balances with the others though, like Car and Driver where "average range" was 58 miles on a long-term test. http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/201 ... est-review

In any event, if I were the OP reading the Edmunds review, I would see 83 miles as an absolute ceiling for range on a brand new car with minimal HVAC and in sunny, moderate Southern California weather. The point stands that a trivial amount of googling for 2011-2012 Leaf reviews would have determined that 100 miles of range is a bonkers-crazy expectation for a brand new 2012 Leaf, let alone a used one. The official rating on the sticker, on NissanUSA.com, on fueleconomy.gov, etc., remains 73 miles for that car. That's a reasonable expectation from reliable sources.

Dealers lie. Dealers of affordable cars are generally staffed with people who have little interest in learning the details of their product. Dealer staff have exceptionally little real-world experience selling EVs, in my experience. The OP got a dealer who likely didn't understand their product (again, I'd be positively floored if anyone in that facility had ever driven a Leaf more than ten consecutive miles) and simultaneously wanted to say whatever was necessary to close the deal with the customer.

The OP got screwed and lied to by a car dealer. But the OP bought a used car after doing insufficient research and wants to rectify it a year after taking delivery. There is precious little consumer protection for buyers of brand new cars. There's less for used car buyers. There's even less for any buyers after a year. I would be amazed if any level of effort would result in any compensation for the OP. Give a nasty Yelp review, don't buy another car from that dealer, and chalk it up as a life lesson.

What's left is to mitigate the situation by using tools and advice from this forum. Or take the lumps, the financial hit, and get a car that works better for the situation. It's a lousy situation but there are few options to make it better.
2018 Tesla Model 3 Long Range (100% charge @ 30k miles shows 1.6% degradation)

2013 Nissan Leaf S + QC sold with warranty pack replacement (~35% degradation @ ~40k miles)

2015 Kia Soul EV+ Lease returned 10/14/17 45,000 miles w/ 13.8% degradation.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 13300
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: My Nissan Leaf does not go as far as promised

Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:14 pm

One last suggestion for the OP to improve range. It's an expensive one, but if he really has to go 75MPH, then he needs to look at the 'Aero Mods' topic(s) here. The optional-in-2012 17" wheels, with smooth pieplate covers, and the other small mods, might add 5 miles or so of range at those speeds. I think I'd look at making removable rear wheel well covers, instead of just smooth hubcaps.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Reddy
Posts: 1544
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:09 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: My Nissan Leaf does not go as far as promised

Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:06 pm

mtndrew1 wrote:I'm always baffled when anyone relies on an auto dealership to do anything more complicated than exchanging a cashier's check for an automobile. If I had a nickel for all the blatantly erroneous information fed to me by car salesmen over the years I could use all my nickels to get myself a brand new Leaf.

The EPA range for your car, brand new, is 73 miles in ideal weather with minimal HVAC use. This is published all over the internet, on Nissan's website, on the car's original window sticker, on fueleconomy.gov, etc. So this is your upper ceiling on range, legally. No matter what the dealer said to you that's what the world's most perfect 2012 Leaf is capable of in perfect conditions, according to the EPA.

Your car is now missing a capacity bar meaning that it has lost at least 16% of its battery capacity. This implies that your upper ceiling on range today is about 61 miles (EPA rating, ideal weather, minimal HVAC).

If you want to "make the dealer hurt" or whatever, I'm assuming you mean to do so on legal grounds. Well, even in its degraded state, if a lawyer took your car out on a flat closed circuit tomorrow with properly inflated tires and set the cruise at a continuous 35 MPH with no HVAC and a with full charge in warm weather, it certainly would get 100+ miles of range. So can your car actually move itself 100 miles on a full charge? It sure can, with the right conditions. It's meaningless to you, but the car can propel itself 100 miles on a charge under absurd circumstances.

My opinion here is that unless you have something in writing from the dealer guaranteeing that your Leaf is somehow unique and will achieve 73, 84, or 100 miles of range with your driving style and patterns, that you have little legal recourse.

It's unfortunate, but I believe you put too much trust into the people with a vested interest in selling you a car while simultaneously doing too little to educate yourself about said car beforehand. Most of the people selling you the Leaf have probably never driven one more than ten miles. They may not have intentionally lied, they might just not understand their product and that's not a surprise given the blistering staff turnover at auto dealers. Nor do they care, as they'll forget about you about 90 seconds after you sign on the dotted line.

It's pretty common knowledge that early Leaf batteries degrade quickly, that the early Leaf heaters use a lot of power, and that the EPA published range (ideal, new) is 73 miles.

I'm of the opinion that the dealer is likely under little to no legal obligation to do anything for you, and if they do choose to try and improve your situation it's entirely due to goodwill on their part. You're at their mercy.

What you can do for yourself, given you got yourself into this predicament, is to make use of some tools widely used by the Leaf community to get the most use out of their cars. Get yourself Leafspy and learn how to use it. Make sure you have energy saving tires fitted and that they're filled at or above the rated pressure. Look for alternate routes that can reduce energy consumption. Etc. And the next time you go to buy a product in a segment you're unfamiliar with, know more about that product than anyone who works at the facility trying to sell it to you. It's a crummy system, and that's the only way I've found to protect myself.
This is one of the most well-written responses I've read in a long time on MNL. It's great to see the quality of our members! I initially skipped reading this thread due to the OP's language and angst. However, I'm glad to have returned and seen this (and several other's responses). I hope the OP takes time to re-read all of these responses and internalize.

For me, I purchased at FULL MSRP (something like $35K) back in early 2011. I didn't believe the "100 mile" range then, and knew that I'd be fine with 25 miles, even years or decades later. I've saved nearly $10,000 in gas over my lousy gas guzzler. Our electricity is $0.06/KWh, so cheap it's rounding noise. I'd do it all over again if (when) needed. I'd rather starve the oil industry to pay the auto industry for more electrics. That's just my perspective, but hey, I waited OVER TWENTY years to purchase my first electric vehicle, so maybe my perspective is a bit out of touch with mainstream America.
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 45.80 AHr; 45,000 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

TheJeebas
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:47 pm
Delivery Date: 02 Nov 2016

Re: My Nissan Leaf does not go as far as promised

Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:46 pm

Not to pile on here but I live in the northern suburbs of Pittsburgh as well and I am gonna go out on a limb and say that you are traveling from the northern suburbs to Oakland (since you mentioned a university and the commute description seems to add up), have you looked into taking US-19 or even PA-8 down into town and then cutting through the East End? It's stop lights instead of freeway, but it's more of what the Leaf was built to drive in.

That dealer definitely fed you a line for sure on the range. I am not condoning what they do, but no one ever said a car salesman is a noble profession. We test drove a new Leaf at the very dealership that you mentioned before we eventually bought my wife's used Leaf, and they knew absolutely nothing about it and I got a grimy feeling from the dealership in general. Beating suburbanites over the head for $50K+ Armadas is what they are good at, they don't care to guarantee the range on a tech that they know nothing about.

I would suggest storing it in a garage if you can at home, and bumping the PSI to 40-42 as others have mentioned. Barring that, I would look into selling it and getting a used 2013-2015 from Carvana, or just waiting for a Bolt if you really need more range. If you don't mind switching back to gas you could likely trade it straight up for a 2014 Mitsubishi Mirage (which is the most fuel efficient conventional gas vehicle out there right now), you could drive that with a lead foot and still get 35 MPG.

My question to you would be - Obviously you have made this work for the last 1.5 years, what have you done to make this work for you all this time?

blimpy
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:36 pm
Delivery Date: 0- 0-2014

Re: My Nissan Leaf does not go as far as promised

Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:17 pm

6 pages of replies.. which I didn't have the stomach to read.

I would ask you to go to Youtube.. and took at some videos posted by people who live in very cold climates.
There are a LOT of leafs in Norway.

Do this just so you can understand what is Normal for a battery powered car in very cold conditions.
What you describe sounds perfectly normal.. it just wont work for you... that's all.

--- The facts that the salesmen are ignorant and lie ( both) doesn't make the Leaf a Bad Car.. or Nissan a Bad Corporation -

It means you got your tit in the wringer.... you have a Car that Is NOT SUITED TO YOUR NEEDS
Just get one that is !


So, I sincerely suggest you sell the leaf and buy a car that DOES suit your needs.
NOT an electric one !

A prius will let you blast down the road as fast as you can stand.
They are cheap enough used that you can get one with the $7000 your Leaf is worth.
You can let it run all night in the driveway.. it you want it really HOT inside.
it wont care.

----

I wont rub your nose in anything.

----
Any energy you invest in researching your next car.. before buying it.. will be repaid.

Consumers Reports has very good compendiums of information about Used Cars.. problem areas and strong points
by Make, Model, and Year... Start there.. and pick the best suited to your needs and budget.
2016 SV purchased 11/2/16 With Subsidies From Sonoma Clean Power, North Sonoma Air Pollution Control District, Evergreen, and State of California, and $15,000 in discounts from Jim Bone Nissan Santa Rosa California. :D Color Me GRATEFUL Long Time Coming !

alembic42
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:07 am
Delivery Date: 14 Feb 2015
Leaf Number: 018686

Re: My Nissan Leaf does not go as far as promised

Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:08 pm

-
Last edited by alembic42 on Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

powersurge
Posts: 1503
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: My Nissan Leaf does not go as far as promised

Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:10 am

Overall, when I have heard people who are dissatisfied with the Leaf, they seem to be of two groups.. One group are the people who buy a used Leaf, and find that their battery starts to deteriorate, and does not have the range of a newer car... Here, the car has had its best years of battery life used by the original owner. Like buying any used car, a used car will not be like a new car, and will need more repairs.

Second group are new and used buyers that expect that a Leaf (even in good condition) to drive like, maintain high speeds, use the heat and a/c just like their old gas guzzler car. Forget it. you cannot expect to get a free lunch here. Saving petroleum and energy requires changing HABITS to a different lifestyle.

If you enjoy the idea of driving an EV, and are willing to accept a new lifestyle, then the Leaf is for you.... I am ecstatic with my EV experience. I love pugging in my car 2x /day because I love what I am doing --- driving a magical electric vehicle... (some people see that as a hassle). I love being able to drive 60-80 miles per day silently and cheaply. Not using any petroleum... That needs to be your priority to own a Leaf. Otherwise.....GO BUY A GAS CAR.

WetEV
Posts: 3158
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: My Nissan Leaf does not go as far as promised

Sun Nov 20, 2016 11:12 am

alembic42 wrote:Anyway, still super pissed at nissan - and I can't believe there are people here who aren't??? I mean if you bought my Leaf at today's prices, then sure seven grand for a car like this has to seem like a good deal. I spent $16k and I guarantee you I would have approached it differently if I'd known the truth about the lies I was being told. Didn't a bunch of you guys buy yours new for over $30k?
I'm one that isn't even slightly upset with Nissan. And I've bought two Leafs.

The difference is probably that I knew what I was buying. So the surprises have been mostly positive.

I knew it wasn't a really 100 mile range car before the first one was sold. I knew that Li ion batteries lose capacity, more quickly so in hot places, and that a buyer should plan for that. I knew that range would be less in cold, wet, snowy, windy, hilly and with heat or AC running, and again, the buyer should plan for that.

I hoped that the Leaf would be very reliable. Other than a blown out tire, that's been the case so far. According to Consumer Reports, the Leaf is Nissan's most reliable car. An electric car has very few moving parts, and has the potential to be more reliable than any gasoline car.

I hoped that the Leaf would be similar in total cost of ownership to a gas car. Looks like this goal is still realistic for me. Low gas prices now make the gas car a bit cheaper, but I'm only looking for similar, not clearly lower. And I'm in BEV heaven, coastal Pacific Northwest, with cool temperatures, fairly low electric prices...Some places with hot temperatures and high electric prices will be a lot worse for an BEV.

The Leaf has been a joy to drive. Comfortable, quiet, smooth, responsive...

Not stopping at gas stations was a joy I wasn't expecting. Other than the once a year stop for gas for the power washer.

If someone relied on the hundred mile range hype, I can see why they are upset...

People in hot places have a reason to be unhappy with battery life for the 2011 and 2012. Nissan's statements were misleading. Doesn't impact me, I'm going to get good battery life, but I feel for those impacted.

Nissan took a big chance on building the Leaf and rolling out to a national market. I appreciate that.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

powersurge
Posts: 1503
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: My Nissan Leaf does not go as far as promised

Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:13 am

+1!!!!!!!

WetEV... You are my brother in Leafness!!!

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