WetEV
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Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:52 am

SageBrush wrote:
arnis wrote:5-10 saved minutes each month is not worth $9000. Not even close.
He said 5-10 minutes per charging stop on a trip.
I use QC more than most, and I use a bit over 1 QC per month.

64QCs / 51months
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Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
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Oils4AsphaultOnly
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Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:15 am

jlv wrote:
SageBrush wrote:I've thought about the $9k battery upgrade option also and decided to skip it since our driving habits never extend past 300 miles in a day, and I don't mind the short Supercharger stops the smaller battery will require.
The LR will charge faster at SuperChargers. In my S, I figure this adds 5-10 minutes every time we stop at a SC on a long trip. My wife talked me out of getting a 90D, and I wish she hadn't (especially since she's more sensitive about the time charging takes on a long trip).
My wife's the same way. That 5-10 minutes saved per charging stop, plus fewer charging stops on a 400 mile road trip, just to NOT have to hear another word about how faster the trip would've been using a gas-car is worth every penny!!

Some things just don't have a monetary value.
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
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SageBrush
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Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:47 am

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
jlv wrote:
SageBrush wrote:I've thought about the $9k battery upgrade option also and decided to skip it since our driving habits never extend past 300 miles in a day, and I don't mind the short Supercharger stops the smaller battery will require.
The LR will charge faster at SuperChargers. In my S, I figure this adds 5-10 minutes every time we stop at a SC on a long trip. My wife talked me out of getting a 90D, and I wish she hadn't (especially since she's more sensitive about the time charging takes on a long trip).
My wife's the same way. That 5-10 minutes saved per charging stop, plus fewer charging stops on a 400 mile road trip, just to NOT have to hear another word about how faster the trip would've been using a gas-car is worth every penny!!

Some things just don't have a monetary value.
I'll have to learn to praise my wife every time she wants to stop to buy a coffee and empty her bladder. It provides easy cover for the surreptitious Supercharging going on at the same time.

Joking aside, the time spent charging that is net greater than we stop anyway is trivial if anything at all. That will be true in a Model 3 SR as well since I figure about 1 kWh net per minute, so about 4.5 miles a minute added during charging. 10 minutes at the charge stop should do it for us during our most frequent non-local trip, easily within the bounds of our delays anyway.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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jlv
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Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:24 pm

When going on a long (400+) mile trip, we start out with the S charged to 100% (255mi) and make about 160-200 miles on the first leg to the first SC (it depends upon the direction of travel; e.g., going to Maine vs. NY). With the 75D, the car starts charging at a max of 99kW (~330mi/hour) rather than 120kW, as a larger battery car would do. Ideally we want to reach the SC with as little as ~20mi range left, as that allows the car to charge at a faster rate. To minimize your travel time, you then want to charge no more than is needed to reach the next SC plus some reserve. (Thankfully the Tesla Nav does a great job of this, including including elevation changes in it's estimates, but it doesn't really work well to estimate the effects of inclement weather and head winds - Winds and Elevation helps with that). So we end up at the SC for between 20-30 minutes, rather than 15-20 minutes if we had a larger battery (90).

Depending upon the length of the trip, there might be 3 or 4 SC stops. That 5-10 minutes begins to add up.
LEAF '13 SL+Prem (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17, sold 11/18) 34K mi, AHr 58, SOH 87%
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Oils4AsphaultOnly
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Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:18 pm

new datum.

Today I did a full rebalancing charger after a few days of QC'ing to generate data for lorenfb. prior to my QC runs, my SOH was ~90%, with peak GID's of ~332. This morning's reading was SOH of 92% (peak GID's of 334)!

So I'm going to put less faith in the SOH value as a gauge of battery health, and trust the reported GID's instead - even though that has been slowly rising since Jan!
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:37 pm

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:new datum.

Today I did a full rebalancing charger after a few days of QC'ing to generate data for lorenfb. prior to my QC runs, my SOH was ~90%, with peak GID's of ~332. This morning's reading was SOH of 92% (peak GID's of 334)!

So I'm going to put less faith in the SOH value as a gauge of battery health, and trust the reported GID's instead - even though that has been slowly rising since Jan!
I looked at ahr as my gauge. I hit 363 GIDs 3 days before my S30 was killed. Not sure I can bank on that with nearly 30,000 miles on the clock.

Ahr was a somewhat more reasonable 81.31. Also don't have to have a full charge to get a reading.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 7059.6 mi, 95.35% SOH
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willbur4
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Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:00 pm

I decided to Check my 30Kw 2016 Leaf battery after seeing reports of accelerated degradation. I Was pleased to find 99.97% SOH (LeafSpy) after two years and 24,442 miles of use in northern Ohio. We L2 Charge daily to ~ 90% then drive off within 1/2 hour. It appears these batteries do well in this climate if owners manual precautions (they are a pain) are heeded. Battery data from 4/19/2018:

SOH = 99.97 %
Temp = 62.8 F
347 volts
AHR = 79.46
1 QC 791L1/L2 Charges
24,442 miles
HX = 92.51%
SOC = 28.7%
84 GID
4mi/KwH

cwerdna
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Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:43 pm

willbur4 wrote:I decided to Check my 30Kw 2016 Leaf battery after seeing reports of accelerated degradation
...
4mi/KwH
Battery capacity is measured in kWh, not "Kw". Thanks for the info though.

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IssacZachary
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Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:52 pm

willbur4 wrote:It appears these batteries do well in this climate if owners manual precautions (they are a pain) are heeded.
What owner's manual precautions are you referring to, if I may ask?
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:38 am

willbur4 wrote:I decided to Check my 30Kw 2016 Leaf battery after seeing reports of accelerated degradation. I Was pleased to find 99.97% SOH (LeafSpy) after two years and 24,442 miles of use in northern Ohio. We L2 Charge daily to ~ 90% then drive off within 1/2 hour. It appears these batteries do well in this climate if owners manual precautions (they are a pain) are heeded. Battery data from 4/19/2018:

SOH = 99.97 %
Temp = 62.8 F
347 volts
AHR = 79.46
1 QC 791L1/L2 Charges
24,442 miles
HX = 92.51%
SOC = 28.7%
84 GID
4mi/KwH
Your avoiding 100% SOC has paid off!

Your SOH is good but Hx, not so much. Wouldn't lose sleep over that. The pitfall of no top end balancing. To determine how important top end balancing you need to weigh longevity over range. If you don't need a few extra miles of range, just keep doing what you are doing.

Ahr is 96.5%. Its all conjecture here but I consider this the most important metric. I would also take more readings of your pack as this single snapshot could be a bit misleading. The numbers bounce around (if you don't have a 2018) all the time so more samples just rounds out the view a bit.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 7059.6 mi, 95.35% SOH
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