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JPWhite
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Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:41 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Jul 2011
Leaf Number: 5734
Location: Hendersonville TN
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Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:59 am

lorenfb wrote: Hopefully, this "fix"
doesn't fully reset all the battery parameters, e.g. SOH == 95 - 100% after the "fix".
I suppose we'll find out. As a historical data point, the BMS firmware update for he 2011/12 packs *did* reset battery parameters.

On 8/2/2013 my Ahr was 55.5763 first thing in the morning prior to the update
After the update was applied the Ahr increased to 59.7812

by 8/23/2013 the Ahr reading was back to 55.6944

I believe the update process will reset parameters and require the BMS to relearn the battery from scratch.

Back then LEAFspy didn't record SOH so not sure how it changed.
--
JP White
http://jpwhitenissanleaf.com
2011 Blue SL-e, 132,400 Miles.
Lost 5 Capacity bars
7/18/13 (29,206), 8/25/14 (51,728), 7/12/15 (71.108), 5/12/16 (88,362), 10/17/16 (96,532)
New Battery 12/3/16 (98,956)
2018 Model 3 20,000 Miles.

lorenfb
Posts: 2241
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:03 am

JPWhite wrote:
lorenfb wrote: Hopefully, this "fix"
doesn't fully reset all the battery parameters, e.g. SOH == 95 - 100% after the "fix".
I suppose we'll find out. As a historical data point, the BMS firmware update for he 2011/12 packs *did* reset battery parameters.

On 8/2/2013 my Ahr was 55.5763 first thing in the morning prior to the update
After the update was applied the Ahr increased to 59.7812

by 8/23/2013 the Ahr reading was back to 55.6944

I believe the update process will reset parameters and require the BMS to relearn the battery from scratch.

Back then LEAFspy didn't record SOH so not sure how it changed.
Hopefully the same occurs with this "minor" firmware update.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 4.5K miles, 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

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OrientExpress
Posts: 1487
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Delivery Date: 10 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2331
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:41 am

happyfunball wrote:Reading those scans from Nissan, it seems clear this won't affect range, just the display on the dash and SOH readings in LeafSpy. If you have reduced range this won't help :(
A better way of looking at this is that no, the fix does not give you more range, i.e. the 30 kWh battery will still be rated at 103 miles, not suddenly 151 miles. And if your 16-17 LEAF was a low mileage car, but had lost 3-4 bars, and the range had gone down, it's not that the battery had degraded, it is still fine, it's the monitoring calculations were bad. This fix, restores the ability of the car to use its full capacity that is still there.

Now of course the old saying: "Your mileage may vary" is applicable here. The fix won't restore battery capacity that has been lost through normal usage, but what it will do is provide more accurate information on the health of the battery.
2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

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LTLFTcomposite
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Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 pm
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Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Central FL

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:41 am

Sounds like they are reprogramming it so the bars don't drop so fast. Big money savings for Nissan, owners lose out.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

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OrientExpress
Posts: 1487
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Delivery Date: 10 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2331
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:51 am

LTLFTcomposite wrote:Sounds like they are reprogramming it so the bars don't drop so fast. Big money savings for Nissan, owners lose out.
If you take the POV of a freeloader trying to game Nissan out of a free battery yes. But in reality, owners are the big winners here, because this fixes a flaw that indicated that their battery was going bad when it really wasn't.

It also saves Nissan a big warranty expense of replacing batteries that did not need to be replaced.
2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

mn4az
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:24 pm
Location: Prior Lake, MN

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:56 am

On an unrelated thing I am taking my '16 Leaf in for warranty service next week and will ask that they perform the update at the same time. I will be sure to capture before/after LeafSpy stats.

@rcm4453 given you are in MN, like me, and have lost bars already on your '16 Leaf I will be super interested in your analysis as well.
Last edited by mn4az on Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

lorenfb
Posts: 2241
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:03 am

mn4az wrote:On an unrelated thing I am taking my '16 Leaf in for warranty service next week and will ask that they perform the update at the same time. I will be sure to capture before/after LeafSpy stats.

Great!
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 4.5K miles, 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14099
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
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Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:22 am

rcm4453 wrote:
OrientExpress wrote:It's great news that the BMS reprogramming fix has finally hit the streets. Nissan has been testing this fix since last year when it was first observed. In some cases they are still replacing the entire pack, but now most cars presenting with the phantom accelerated capacity loss can be fixed.

That's not a good thing will mean many won't be getting a new battery. If you're down 2 bars like the guy on FB was, they reprogram the BMS now it shows 12 bars isn't Nissan just hiding the capacity loss to avoid so many battery replacements? Sure sounds like it to me! After all when has Nissan ever had the consumer's best interest in mind?
Yeah...NO.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14099
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
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Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:24 am

johnlocke wrote:I can assure you that my battery loss was not a "Phantom Loss". My range decreased from 90 miles at VLBW to 65 miles at VLBW and 53 miles at LBW. LBW went from 13% to 21% over the course of 30 months. This was a real loss of range. Nissan has monkeyed around with the values of the capacity bars to confuse and disarm consumers. The first bar doesn't disappear until the battery is down by 20%. With 12 bars available the first bar ought to vanish at 92% of original capacity. Four bars down is actually 62% of original capacity. Nissan won't even define what a four bar loss actually is and uses confusing language ("more than a three bar loss") in the owners manual. Nissan might as well have put a simple warning light "Change the Battery" instead of a misleading gauge and just been upfront about it.

The BMS controls what the car can use or see. The issue here is its possible that the BMS prevented the car from using pack that was ok.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14099
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:30 am

jbuntz wrote:And why is it that it is only cars in TX Fl AZ So Cal are the ones that have the BMS problems ??
COMPLETELY UNTRUE!!

There are people in my region who have lost 2 bars in less than 20,000 miles. Now that might seem "better" than what you are seeing but remember, I went nearly 30,000 miles with a 1-3% loss. I was projected to have 12 bars at 100,000 miles EASILY
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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