LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 12977
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:47 pm

Build date of November 2015, so that would explain the rapid degradation.
It's certainly possible, even likely. We know the early builds have more cell defects, but we need a few more examples of early degradation being linked to early build dates, and better longevity linked to later build dates, to have a real pattern.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

iPlug
Posts: 418
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Apr 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:07 pm

iPlug wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
iPlug wrote:2016 Leaf SV leased 4/16

30kWh battery replaced with new battery in 3/18:

AHr= 82.34
SOH= 103.60%
Hx= 97.45%
Odo= 18,729 mi
QC= 31
L1/L2= 660

Battery Software update already installed

4/3/19:
AHr= 73.98
SOH= 93.08%
Hx= 79.36%
Odo= 27,556 mi
QC= 36
L1/L2= 902


3-year lease was up this month. Just got 3 month extension.
That is way too much loss
Re-ran the OBDII/LeafSpy numbers again this morning with different SOC, and the numbers almost identical, a tad less on all metrics. Can wait 3 more months to get into a new lease or possibly buy new BEV if the terms are right.
6/8/19:
AHr= 74.03
SOH= 93.14%
Hx= 79.47%
Odo= 28,732 mi
QC= 36
L1/L2= 926

Trading this 2016 30kWh Leaf SV in for a new lease with a 2019 40kWh Leaf SV in a few hours. Looks like everything stabilized over the last few months. Good news for the future owner.
'19 Model 3 SR+ (own), '19 Leaf SV (leased), '12 Plug-in Prius (sold 3/19), '16 Leaf SV (prior lease), 11.43kW Solar PV (16MWh/yr real production), 20.5 SEER/13.0 HSPF ducted air-source heat pump, 3.70 UEF heat pump water heater, Induction Cooktop

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14101
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:21 pm

iPlug wrote:
iPlug wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
That is way too much loss
Re-ran the OBDII/LeafSpy numbers again this morning with different SOC, and the numbers almost identical, a tad less on all metrics. Can wait 3 more months to get into a new lease or possibly buy new BEV if the terms are right.
6/8/19:
AHr= 74.03
SOH= 93.14%
Hx= 79.47%
Odo= 28,732 mi
QC= 36
L1/L2= 926

Trading this 2016 30kWh Leaf SV in for a new lease with a 2019 40kWh Leaf SV in a few hours. Looks like everything stabilized over the last few months. Good news for the future owner.
Looks like that replacement pack is only doing a bit better. Mine was 10/16 build (the last month of 16 MY) 30 kwh S trim. I had 29413 miles on it with 100% SOH. (before the additional digits came in)

In the last 2 weeks before she was killed, ahr varied from 81.78 to 82.34 (82.34 is new pack reading) FYI; never got the chance to install the SW update.

Now we can attribute my nondegradable pack to weather which seems to be the status quo here but now I have the 2018 with only 20,000 miles on it and SOH lower than yours. There is also a fellow NWer who had an early build 30 kwh LEAF like yours and lost 10% in just under a year so they are not "complying" with the climate rule either.

I personally think its shoddy quality control. I rolled the dice on the S30 and came up a winner. Not so much on the S40.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

iPlug
Posts: 418
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Apr 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:52 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:Looks like that replacement pack is only doing a bit better. Mine was 10/16 build (the last month of 16 MY) 30 kwh S trim. I had 29413 miles on it with 100% SOH. (before the additional digits came in)

In the last 2 weeks before she was killed, ahr varied from 81.78 to 82.34 (82.34 is new pack reading) FYI; never got the chance to install the SW update.

Now we can attribute my nondegradable pack to weather which seems to be the status quo here but now I have the 2018 with only 20,000 miles on it and SOH lower than yours. There is also a fellow NWer who had an early build 30 kwh LEAF like yours and lost 10% in just under a year so they are not "complying" with the climate rule either.

I personally think its shoddy quality control. I rolled the dice on the S30 and came up a winner. Not so much on the S40.
Hoping our new 40kWh pack will do better, but it doesn't really matter since we are continuing to lease and the warranty giving us a minimum protected threshold. It will be a secondary vehicle as the 30 kWh Leaf was, and with the improved 150 mile EV range it will be even more than we need.

The Model 3 SR+ will remain the primary vehicle and will take us on the longest trips when needed. We're vacationing with my cousin's family at the end of this month so will drive 400 miles down to L.A. then down to San Diego and back, so ~1,200 miles round trip. 240 mile range and the fastest L3 (supercharging) absolves this responsibility from the Leaf.

The Leaf will remain a city car and really max round trip will remain the 50 miles to and from the airport. Might rarely take it up to Tahoe if we need two cars and use the free EVgo L3/L2 charging we get for 2 years.
'19 Model 3 SR+ (own), '19 Leaf SV (leased), '12 Plug-in Prius (sold 3/19), '16 Leaf SV (prior lease), 11.43kW Solar PV (16MWh/yr real production), 20.5 SEER/13.0 HSPF ducted air-source heat pump, 3.70 UEF heat pump water heater, Induction Cooktop

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14101
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:05 pm

iPlug wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:Looks like that replacement pack is only doing a bit better. Mine was 10/16 build (the last month of 16 MY) 30 kwh S trim. I had 29413 miles on it with 100% SOH. (before the additional digits came in)

In the last 2 weeks before she was killed, ahr varied from 81.78 to 82.34 (82.34 is new pack reading) FYI; never got the chance to install the SW update.

Now we can attribute my nondegradable pack to weather which seems to be the status quo here but now I have the 2018 with only 20,000 miles on it and SOH lower than yours. There is also a fellow NWer who had an early build 30 kwh LEAF like yours and lost 10% in just under a year so they are not "complying" with the climate rule either.

I personally think its shoddy quality control. I rolled the dice on the S30 and came up a winner. Not so much on the S40.
Hoping our new 40kWh pack will do better, but it doesn't really matter since we are continuing to lease and the warranty giving us a minimum protected threshold. It will be a secondary vehicle as the 30 kWh Leaf was, and with the improved 150 mile EV range it will be even more than we need.

The Model 3 SR+ will remain the primary vehicle and will take us on the longest trips when needed. We're vacationing with my cousin's family at the end of this month so will drive 400 miles down to L.A. then down to San Diego and back, so ~1,200 miles round trip. 240 mile range and the fastest L3 (supercharging) absolves this responsibility from the Leaf.

The Leaf will remain a city car and really max round trip will remain the 50 miles to and from the airport. Might rarely take it up to Tahoe if we need two cars and use the free EVgo L3/L2 charging we get for 2 years.
You don't need NCTC there. I am guessing you have heard about "Drive the Arc?"
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

iPlug
Posts: 418
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Apr 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:48 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:You don't need NCTC there. I am guessing you have heard about "Drive the Arc?"
We do need it to use it for free. No charge to charge is run by EVgo in these parts which is also “Drive the Arc”.
'19 Model 3 SR+ (own), '19 Leaf SV (leased), '12 Plug-in Prius (sold 3/19), '16 Leaf SV (prior lease), 11.43kW Solar PV (16MWh/yr real production), 20.5 SEER/13.0 HSPF ducted air-source heat pump, 3.70 UEF heat pump water heater, Induction Cooktop

johnlocke
Posts: 393
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:22 am

June update. 342 GID's 75.04AH SOH=94.42% Hx=81.67% 62347 total mi. 117418 mi on new battery. 15 DCFC and 331 l2 charges on the new battery. The new battery continues to do better than the old one but May was exceptionally wet and cool. June is still relatively cool so far this year but the battery is holding up better than I expected. I'm down 6% from new in just under a year and at this rate the car will meet my needs for 3 more years but I'll probably sell or trade it in after I hit 100K. I've learned that 30 KWH Is more than adequate for my normal daily use but that 24 KWH is marginal and 20 KWH means an extra charge most days (5-10 KWH somewhere just to make sure I can make it home with some reserve). I'm sure that having to charge every day takes a toll on the battery even if it's mostly L2 charging. My next car is going to need to have at least 50-60 KWH and 250 mile range or better. If I could get 300 miles of range then I could charge to 80% and drive for 3 days between charges.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

awhile
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:41 am
Delivery Date: 01 Nov 2018
Leaf Number: 300706
Location: San Diego

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:54 pm

My next car is going to need to have at least 50-60 KWH and 250 mile range or better.
Someone told me that Chevy Bolts are now getting deep discounts like never before. Looks like Escondido has better deals than Bob Stall:
https://www.qualitychevy.com/VehicleSea ... =Bolt%20EV

BTW, my 2016 SV is at:
AHr = 57.44
SOH = 72.27%
Hx = 41.37%
65,155 miles
Capacity at full charge is about 20.5 kWh

LeafSpy Pro
2016 Leaf SV purchased 10/2018 with 62k miles. Manufactured 10/2015 with first owner at 8/2016.

cwerdna
Posts: 9666
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:04 pm

^^^
The above discounts are similar in amount to what we were seeing in the SF Bay Area (e.g. Fremont and Concord Chevy) towards the end of May. I think once we hit end of May or beginning of June is when they dried up/stopped. Then at some point in picked up again.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
Posts: 9666
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:36 pm

Thanks to a supposed chat transcript at https://www.facebook.com/groups/4377412 ... 205436963/, we learned that "The 24kw costs 8600 dollars to order, the 30kw costs 10500 to order." :(

It's a bit distressing that the rep used the wrong units to describe capacity all through ("kw" instead of kWh).

Fortunately, nobody or almost nobody should be past capacity warranty yet on their 30 kWh packs.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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