Oils4AsphaultOnly
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Leaf Number: 313890
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Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:08 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:26 pm
goldbrick wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:09 am
In the US, 30kWh battery has an 8 year warranty and there is also a BMS firmware update that is available and that needs to be performed before Nissan will replace the battery. Get the BMS update and then see how the battery stats look. Some cars are drastically affected for the better by the update, some it makes no difference. If the BMS update has already been done or if the stats don't change I think the odds are good that the battery shown will reach the replacement limit before the warranty expires.

The battery stats WILL change with the BMS update - they will revert to like new because of the BMS reset involved. The real question is what happens to them over the subsequent few months.
Also, where's the OP located? My sister bought her 2016 with 4-bars down already (~25k miles). After the battery reset, it took almost 2 years (added ~30k miles) for the 4th bar to be lost again. We're in the SG valley, so it's not "hot" like other parts of SoCal.
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
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LeftieBiker
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Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:25 pm

Hi. As I wrote before, any bms update are available for this car.
I'm not quite getting the meaning of this. If you are asking if a BMS update is available, then yes, there is a free one. Give the dealer the VIN to see if the car has had it.
Also, where's the OP located? My sister bought her 2016 with 4-bars down already (~25k miles). After the battery reset, it took almost 2 years (added ~30k miles) for the 4th bar to be lost again. We're in the SG valley, so it's not "hot" like other parts of SoCal.
As I understand it, the BMS will re-learn the actual capacity of the pack within a few months at most. So if it took two years to lose those bars, then it was a real bad pack that just lost bars a little more slowly than some.
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ac19
Posts: 17
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Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:06 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:25 pm
Hi. As I wrote before, any bms update are available for this car.
I'm not quite getting the meaning of this. If you are asking if a BMS update is available, then yes, there is a free one. Give the dealer the VIN to see if the car has had it.
Also, where's the OP located? My sister bought her 2016 with 4-bars down already (~25k miles). After the battery reset, it took almost 2 years (added ~30k miles) for the 4th bar to be lost again. We're in the SG valley, so it's not "hot" like other parts of SoCal.
As I understand it, the BMS will re-learn the actual capacity of the pack within a few months at most. So if it took two years to lose those bars, then it was a real bad pack that just lost bars a little more slowly than some.
I think there is a misunderstanding of the facts and I will explain.
I am considering buying this Nissan leaf 30kwh from 03/2017. I do the test drive during 24h and at that moment I read the data with leafspy. (see the link above).
After that, and knowing that there could be an LBC update for the 30kwh leafs, I took the car to the official Nissan dealer where the car did the two previous scheduled maintenance (2018 and 2019). At Nissan, when they consulted the historial of the car with VIN , they informed that there is no LBC update for the car or any other. I am not asking, but I am stating.
After that and with help of leafspy I see that the LBC firmware version is 4NR6A.
It is difficult understand how a leaf 30kwh of the 2017 and only with 48 mil kms, presents a SOH of 70% !? 😲
The car is in Europe in a very moderate climate, without any negative temperature in winter or in summer temperatures above 35 celsius degrees.
During the test drive I did a quick charge and the car reached very high temperatures in the battery, above 40 ° C when outside temperature is no more than 20 degrees (see link below).
Thanks.

[http://imgur.com/gallery/G0PcBQv]

GaleHawkins
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Leaf Number: 311365
Location: Murray KY

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:31 am

As has been said over and over effectively there is no 30 kWh battery warranty in play until AFTER the BMS update is performed at a Nissan Leaf shop.

Due to this fact having the BMS update applied ASAP seems to be in order in light of the fact Nissan seems to be putting all options on the table to prevent total failure and that was pre COVID-19. Consider using a Nissan Leaf authorized shop that has replaced at least one Leaf battery pack since they have been in business.

We got our 2016 Leaf SL that had been sold 38 months earlier in Oct 2019 showing 9 SOH bars. I 'assumed' the BMS update had not been ran since it only had 21.5K miles on the car that seemed to have lived in the St. Louis MO area per records.

Five weeks after I bought it the 4th bar was lost. When I started looking for a dealership to run the BMS update I realized Nashville TN was not a hot spot for Leaf service so at the advice of a service writer in Nashville I called the Nissan Leaf national hotline.

Starting at the national level for my battery warranty was key to getting a new battery in our case. I told the rep I had lost the 4th bar and was looking for a dealership to run the update. That was when I was told the lessee had complained about low range in 2018 and the BMS update had been ran at that time so I was due a new battery if a Nissan Leaf service center would report what I was reporting to be factual.

Why the warranty was triggered at only 24K miles I do not understand. It reported only 1 DC charge.

I finally found a dealership 70 miles away so since my range was down to 60 miles I rented a U-Haul car trailer and dropped it off 30 Dec 2019 and picked it up 12 Feb 2020. After a few weeks of hassle (being told I had a valid claim but that the Memphis division was looking at options other than replacing the failed battery) I called up the national rep and was told not to worry. A couple weeks later without me talking to the dealership service center I learned my car now had the 40 kWh new battery installed and tested ready for my pick up.

If one thinks they may some day have a Leaf battery warranty claim keep track what is going on in Japan corporate wise.

The Leaf is the nicest car that I have owned. It is the 6th Nissan that I have owned since 1973 but the first one without a gas tank. Going from a range of 60 miles to 150 miles is HUGE. Best of success in the global melt down. :)

LeftieBiker
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Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:00 pm

I think there is a misunderstanding of the facts and I will explain.
I am considering buying this Nissan leaf 30kwh from 03/2017. I do the test drive during 24h and at that moment I read the data with leafspy. (see the link above).
After that, and knowing that there could be an LBC update for the 30kwh leafs, I took the car to the official Nissan dealer where the car did the two previous scheduled maintenance (2018 and 2019). At Nissan, when they consulted the historial of the car with VIN , they informed that there is no LBC update for the car or any other. I am not asking, but I am stating.
After that and with help of leafspy I see that the LBC firmware version is 4NR6A.
It is difficult understand how a leaf 30kwh of the 2017 and only with 48 mil kms, presents a SOH of 70% !? 😲
The car is in Europe in a very moderate climate, without any negative temperature in winter or in summer temperatures above 35 celsius degrees.
During the test drive I did a quick charge and the car reached very high temperatures in the battery, above 40 ° C when outside temperature is no more than 20 degrees (see link below).
There is a serious manufacturing or materials defect with many of the 30kwh packs. They lose capacity very quickly. Nissan claimed that this was just a BMS programming error, and issued a free BMS software update. The update does restore capacity to some 30kwh Leafs, but with others it just masks a real degradation problem that reveals itself again a few months after the update. (I took a lot of flack at first for continuing to say this when Nissan claimed the problem was solved, but time has proven me correct in at least some cases. When Nissan began using 40kwh packs as warranty replacements, the 30kwh Leaf went from a fairly poor risk unless the pack was proven good by not needing the update, to a good way to get a 40kwh first generation Leaf via the warranty replacement.) Anyway, a 30kwh Leaf with multiple lost capacity bars and no BMS update is a bit of a gamble: if you need almost the full range, keep in mind that the BMS update may at least delay the 4 bar loss required for a warranty replacement for years, as you have to drive it with reduced range. Or it may re-lose capacity bars fairly quickly after the update, as happened with Gale's car. It's a roll of the dice...
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

ac19
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:46 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Apr 2020

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:51 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:00 pm
I think there is a misunderstanding of the facts and I will explain.
I am considering buying this Nissan leaf 30kwh from 03/2017. I do the test drive during 24h and at that moment I read the data with leafspy. (see the link above).
After that, and knowing that there could be an LBC update for the 30kwh leafs, I took the car to the official Nissan dealer where the car did the two previous scheduled maintenance (2018 and 2019). At Nissan, when they consulted the historial of the car with VIN , they informed that there is no LBC update for the car or any other. I am not asking, but I am stating.
After that and with help of leafspy I see that the LBC firmware version is 4NR6A.
It is difficult understand how a leaf 30kwh of the 2017 and only with 48 mil kms, presents a SOH of 70% !? 😲
The car is in Europe in a very moderate climate, without any negative temperature in winter or in summer temperatures above 35 celsius degrees.
During the test drive I did a quick charge and the car reached very high temperatures in the battery, above 40 ° C when outside temperature is no more than 20 degrees (see link below).
There is a serious manufacturing or materials defect with many of the 30kwh packs. They lose capacity very quickly. Nissan claimed that this was just a BMS programming error, and issued a free BMS software update. The update does restore capacity to some 30kwh Leafs, but with others it just masks a real degradation problem that reveals itself again a few months after the update. (I took a lot of flack at first for continuing to say this when Nissan claimed the problem was solved, but time has proven me correct in at least some cases. When Nissan began using 40kwh packs as warranty replacements, the 30kwh Leaf went from a fairly poor risk unless the pack was proven good by not needing the update, to a good way to get a 40kwh first generation Leaf via the warranty replacement.) Anyway, a 30kwh Leaf with multiple lost capacity bars and no BMS update is a bit of a gamble: if you need almost the full range, keep in mind that the BMS update may at least delay the 4 bar loss required for a warranty replacement for years, as you have to drive it with reduced range. Or it may re-lose capacity bars fairly quickly after the update, as happened with Gale's car. It's a roll of the dice...
Hi and thanks for all feedback.

I cannot say that the car did not take the BMS update.
What the Nissan dealer tell me is that for this VIN car doesnt exist any oficial recall from Nissan to make any BMS or LBC update.
Because the car are relativly recent I understand that or the car brought the update from factory or in the last two annual maintenances (2018 or 2019) the update was carried out.
Driving in a moderate way the car has a range of 140 kms with a complete charge. For my daily needs it would be enough, but it is always a high risk, even though I still have 5 years of battery warranty ahead.
Many Thanks.

LeftieBiker
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Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:03 pm

The dealership was apparently just entering the VIN into their recall database. There is another check that they (or a more competent dealership) can do that will give the entire service history of the car. It's possible that Nissan didn't do the BMS recall in Europe. Where in Europe is the car located?
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

ac19
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:46 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Apr 2020

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:13 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:03 pm
The dealership was apparently just entering the VIN into their recall database. There is another check that they (or a more competent dealership) can do that will give the entire service history of the car. It's possible that Nissan didn't do the BMS recall in Europe. Where in Europe is the car located?

I do not believe. I am located in Portugal and several 30kwh Leafs were recalled to do the BMS update, including in the Nissan dealer were myself took the car.
In addition, all the research I have done on the Internet indicates that the LBC version 4NR6A is the most recent and I confirmed with the leafspy that this car has exactly that version.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
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Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:21 pm

It appears, then that you have a 30kwh Leaf that has had the BMS update and has still lost multiple bars. Now, for the most important question: what is the warranty on the 30kwh battery in Portugal?
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

ac19
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:46 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Apr 2020

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:24 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:21 pm
It appears, then that you have a 30kwh Leaf that has had the BMS update and has still lost multiple bars. Now, for the most important question: what is the warranty on the 30kwh battery in Portugal?
The same in the USA. 8 years or 160k kms. This car specificaly have battery warranty until 03/2025.

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