wiredfutureman
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:34 am
Delivery Date: 30 Sep 2020
Leaf Number: 049523
Location: Milton Keynes, UK
Contact: Website

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:40 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:41 am
Your car is normal and STOP LOOKING AT THE GOM!!!
The LEAF has a hidden reserve that grows as the SOC declines. IOW; its robbing the GOM of miles so it has more to hide from you. Use LEAF Spy. It has a range estimator. USE IT!
ok ok :) I have other people telling me different things in different places.

Also, my Leaf shows 64miles but SpyPro shows 37.9miles (with 5% reserve)?! Not sure I am doing this right.

That's at 2.5mi/kWh average economy (used to get 3.8 in my i3... so may need to learn how to drive this car better).

The dealer told me that everything is fine but advised me to drive as much as possible and come back in a week to read it again.
Nissan Leaf 'Tekna' 30kWh (2016)
>46k miles; bad case of the battery blues? :s

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15147
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:52 am

wiredfutureman wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:40 am
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:41 am
Your car is normal and STOP LOOKING AT THE GOM!!!
The LEAF has a hidden reserve that grows as the SOC declines. IOW; its robbing the GOM of miles so it has more to hide from you. Use LEAF Spy. It has a range estimator. USE IT!
ok ok :) I have other people telling me different things in different places.

Also, my Leaf shows 64miles but SpyPro shows 37.9miles (with 5% reserve)?! Not sure I am doing this right.

That's at 2.5mi/kWh average economy (used to get 3.8 in my i3... so may need to learn how to drive this car better).

The dealer told me that everything is fine but advised me to drive as much as possible and come back in a week to read it again.
LEAF Spy has a miles/kwh feature "you" have to set. Is it set properly? Are you resetting the miles/kwh daily? You won't have a good idea of your efficiency if you don't. How can a running average over several weeks be of value? Looking back at the end of the day is a Hell of lot easier than trying to decipher weeks of driving.

And why are you setting up LEAF Spy like the GOM? Who cares what you got at 5%. Do you want to know what your range is or do you want to know what 95% of your range is?
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 14,342.8 mi, 93.16% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

wiredfutureman
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:34 am
Delivery Date: 30 Sep 2020
Leaf Number: 049523
Location: Milton Keynes, UK
Contact: Website

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:31 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:52 am
LEAF Spy has a miles/kwh feature "you" have to set. Is it set properly? Are you resetting the miles/kwh daily? You won't have a good idea of your efficiency if you don't. How can a running average over several weeks be of value? Looking back at the end of the day is a Hell of lot easier than trying to decipher weeks of driving.

And why are you setting up LEAF Spy like the GOM? Who cares what you got at 5%. Do you want to know what your range is or do you want to know what 95% of your range is?
Thanks Dave. I don't know :s

I set the mi/kwh in the Spy based on the average shown by the trip computer, which is currently at 2.5.

What should I set the Spy to show me the current range at 2.5mi/kwh? I just left it at the default but also have:

Miles -> LBW
Miles -> VLBW
Miles -> 5% (currently set)

The way I understood the Spy, the summary screen (3) on the bottom right (next to temp/tires) shows the range (estimated trip distance according to the manual) based on the average consumption (which I set manually)?

Oddly, the Leaf dashboard tells me I have 91% charge at 65 miles (63 with a/c) but the Spy tells me I have 17kWh remaining (or 38.6 Miles -> 5% at 2.5mi/kWh). Render me confused :s
Nissan Leaf 'Tekna' 30kWh (2016)
>46k miles; bad case of the battery blues? :s

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 15731
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:49 am

You aren't really doing anything wrong. It appears that Dave was in a bad mood when he wrote that. Most people do manage more than 2.5 M/KWH, but if that's what you get then that's what you should enter to get available range. Leaving a 5% reserve is a good idea, although 10% would be better. The Nissan instrumentation (heh) shows a modified version of actual charge, probably to spare the battery, while LeafSpy shows you what the BMS is reporting as actual charge.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 777
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:55 am

wiredfutureman wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:21 am
ac19 wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:57 pm
If the car is from 2016 and have the LBC firmware version 4NR4A I'm almost sure that the firmware update is missing. After that, it will be with version 4NR4C.
Just got feedback from Nissan in Milton Keynes in the UK (Glyn H) and they say it's all OK and I have the latest updates. There are no updates for the battery and the performance/charge levels are what they'd expect :'(

Should I return the car and look for another?
I paid ~£10k for a four year old Leaf Tekna with small charger and a range well below 100miles...
Yes, keep it. But at this point, I'd "unintentionally" abuse it - leave it fully charged all the time, parked outside, under the sun. And/or leave it with less than 5% charge, parked outside, under the sun. You have enough miles remaining in your warranty that you'll probably qualify for a warranty replacement before it expires.

The range is under 100 miles (brand new, it was rated for only 107 miles), because the battery had lost 30% of its capacity. You can compensate for it during this time by driving slower (below 60mph) and smoothly. It's not ideal, but is worth the effort. BECAUSE ... if you get a warranty replaced pack, it will most likely be a 40kwh pack, which is rated for 150miles of range. In which case, your "lemon" becomes a virtual 2018 leaf for ~£10k. So yeah, keep it.
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15147
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Oct 09, 2020 7:35 am

wiredfutureman wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:31 am
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:52 am
LEAF Spy has a miles/kwh feature "you" have to set. Is it set properly? Are you resetting the miles/kwh daily? You won't have a good idea of your efficiency if you don't. How can a running average over several weeks be of value? Looking back at the end of the day is a Hell of lot easier than trying to decipher weeks of driving.

And why are you setting up LEAF Spy like the GOM? Who cares what you got at 5%. Do you want to know what your range is or do you want to know what 95% of your range is?
Thanks Dave. I don't know :s

I set the mi/kwh in the Spy based on the average shown by the trip computer, which is currently at 2.5.

What should I set the Spy to show me the current range at 2.5mi/kwh? I just left it at the default but also have:

Miles -> LBW
Miles -> VLBW
Miles -> 5% (currently set)

The way I understood the Spy, the summary screen (3) on the bottom right (next to temp/tires) shows the range (estimated trip distance according to the manual) based on the average consumption (which I set manually)?

Oddly, the Leaf dashboard tells me I have 91% charge at 65 miles (63 with a/c) but the Spy tells me I have 17kWh remaining (or 38.6 Miles -> 5% at 2.5mi/kWh). Render me confused :s
The miles/kwh will change constantly. What you want to do is reset the meter every day for several days to get an idea of what you are getting and what situations will move that number up or down. This should be done at the beginning of each season. Then in LEAF Spy settings, you can set that 5% to any increment from 1 to 99%. I highly recommend 1% and coming to grips with the reality that this is a target you MUST avoid. Realize setting it to 5% is a self designed hidden reserve. We already have the GOM and its hidden reserve. Notice toggling ECO on and off changes the GOM?

In the event you are doing a trip that stretches the range, toggling thru the miles/kwh setting in LEAF Spy will give you a target efficiency to aim for.

I reset my miles/kwh meter every day. On my days off, the number is all over the map but if taking just my work commute over the past 3 weeks (which I haven't done any other driving other than that) my efficiency runs from 4.4 miles/kwh to 5.3 miles/kwh. Pretty huge range and that is after pulling out the one day we had some significant rain (4.1)
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 14,342.8 mi, 93.16% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SlowApe
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:38 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Oct 2020
Location: San Diego

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:39 pm

Thank you everyone for all your help! Everything is back as it should be (and then some more I think?) As some of you may have previously read, I had a new to me 2017 (~27,500 miles) with SOH= ~55% and a range of 59 miles at 100% charge. I took the vehicle to a second Nissan dealership after the first one flat out refused to warranty the battery. The second dealership needed some serious education too, but they were willing to listen, wanted to learn, and appreciated my business. It took three days for them to warranty the battery and I just picked it up. Here are the stats...

Image

Image

I only drove it a couple of miles home so I am not sure if it needs to be driven farther before more "learning" occurs between the car and the new battery?

The other thing that really puzzles me is the number of QC's and L1/L2s that are on the battery? Could that be accurate?

Thanks again for everyone's help. I am another warranty replacement/upgrade success.

Cheers,
Blake
2017 LEAF SV
Deep Blue Pearl
Premium Package

goldbrick
Posts: 1017
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:35 pm

Congrats! You have a 40kWh battery in your car now, so it should have 133% of the range it had when new.

The QC and L1/L2 counters don't get reset when the battery is replaced so that is normal. Enjoy your better-than-new Leaf.

awhile
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:41 am
Delivery Date: 01 Nov 2018
Location: San Diego

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:31 pm

SlowApe wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:39 pm
I took the vehicle to a second Nissan dealership after the first one flat out refused to warranty the battery. The second dealership needed some serious education too, but they were willing to listen, wanted to learn, and appreciated my business.
Thanks for update. Which San Diego dealership did you take it to? I did my battery warranty replacement at Mossy Nissan Kearny Mesa in San Diego.
2016 Leaf SV purchased 10/2018 with 62k miles. Manufactured 10/2015 with first owner at 8/2016. New 40 kWh replacement battery installed 9/2020 under warranty.

SlowApe
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:38 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Oct 2020
Location: San Diego

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:57 am

awhile wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:31 pm
SlowApe wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:39 pm
I took the vehicle to a second Nissan dealership after the first one flat out refused to warranty the battery. The second dealership needed some serious education too, but they were willing to listen, wanted to learn, and appreciated my business.
Thanks for the update. Which San Diego dealership did you take it to? I did my battery warranty replacement at Mossy Nissan Kearny Mesa in San Diego.
Ended up at the Mossy Nissan dealership in Escondido. It took about a week to get the battery in stock, they called me and asked me to drop off the vehicle, three days later it was back and better than ever.
2017 LEAF SV
Deep Blue Pearl
Premium Package

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