SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:21 pm

lorenfb wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote: So I don't see how you could possibly still have 12 bars of battery life remaining?
You question my data? Check with Dave (DaveinOlyWA - has one of the highest post counts).
His '13 had about the same mileage with even a higher Ahr reading when it was returned
AND 12 bars.
He is confused by your earlier post stating 51 Ahr and 12 bars.
I think you mean you have 12 bars at 51k miles.

What *is* your Ahrs ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 743
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:03 pm

lorenfb wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote: So I don't see how you could possibly still have 12 bars of battery life remaining?
You question my data? Check with Dave (DaveinOlyWA - has one of the highest post counts).
His '13 had about the same mileage with even a higher Ahr reading when it was returned
AND 12 bars.
Dave lives in a much cooler climate, so it makes sense that he'd still have 12 bars (with a higher AHr value to correspond with it)

Whereas you and I are in SoCal, so a higher rate of degradation is expected. What does not make sense is your battery being at 75% SOH and still having 12 bars. That's just not possible for a 24kwh battery.

Edit: I won't dignify your judgement about what negative posts I have read with a response.
Last edited by Oils4AsphaultOnly on Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 743
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:05 pm

SageBrush wrote:
lorenfb wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote: So I don't see how you could possibly still have 12 bars of battery life remaining?
You question my data? Check with Dave (DaveinOlyWA - has one of the highest post counts).
His '13 had about the same mileage with even a higher Ahr reading when it was returned
AND 12 bars.
He is confused by your earlier post stating 51 Ahr and 12 bars.
I think you mean you have 12 bars at 51k miles.

What *is* your Ahrs ?
51Ahr corresponds to his reported SOH of 75%. I don't think lorenfb's battery health gauge is working correctly.
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!

lorenfb
Posts: 2426
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:28 pm

SageBrush wrote:
lorenfb wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote: So I don't see how you could possibly still have 12 bars of battery life remaining?
You question my data? Check with Dave (DaveinOlyWA - has one of the highest post counts).
His '13 had about the same mileage with even a higher Ahr reading when it was returned
AND 12 bars.
He is confused by your earlier post stating 51 Ahr and 12 bars.
I think you mean you have 12 bars at 51k miles.

What *is* your Ahrs ?
From my corrected typo post up thread:
How do you explain my 24kWh Leaf at 54k, 12 bars, 51 Ahrs.
Sorry for the confusion. An additional data point; SOH = 75%.
Other data:

1. Max battery temp <= 38 deg C
2. Max battery discharge point => 15 Ahrs
3. Typical QC < 15 minutes
4. Typical number of QCs per week ~ 3
5. Always L2 to 100% & 5x per week
6. Typical freeway speed 50 - 55 MPH, resulting in a typical battery power
of 15 - 20kW (level terrain)
7. Average miles per kWh - 5.1 (expected range @ 30-40 MPH - 2 miles/Ahrs)
8. Typical max range before QC needed - 60-65 miles (assumes min Ahrs>15)
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 76K miles, 47 Ahrs, 5.0 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=73, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 10.3K miles, SOH 109Ahrs/115Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 743
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:44 pm

lorenfb wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
lorenfb wrote:
You question my data? Check with Dave (DaveinOlyWA - has one of the highest post counts).
His '13 had about the same mileage with even a higher Ahr reading when it was returned
AND 12 bars.
He is confused by your earlier post stating 51 Ahr and 12 bars.
I think you mean you have 12 bars at 51k miles.

What *is* your Ahrs ?
From my corrected typo post up thread:
How do you explain my 24kWh Leaf at 54k, 12 bars, 51 Ahrs.
Sorry for the confusion. An additional data point; SOH = 75%.
Other data:

1. Max battery temp <= 38 deg C
2. Max battery discharge point => 15 Ahrs
3. Typical QC < 15 minutes
4. Typical number of QCs per week ~ 3
5. Always L2 to 100% & 5x per week
6. Typical freeway speed 50 - 55 MPH, resulting in a typical battery power
of 15 - 20kW (level terrain)
7. Average miles per kWh - 5.1 (expected range @ 30-40 MPH - 2 miles/Ahrs)
8. Typical max range before QC needed - 60-65 miles (assumes min Ahrs>15)
With a 60 mile range on a full charge, your battery gauge should be down 2 bars (showing 10 bars out of 12), and look like this (note the empty spaces to the left of the "1"):
Image
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!

lorenfb
Posts: 2426
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:48 pm

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
51Ahr corresponds to his reported SOH of 75%. I don't think lorenfb's battery health gauge is working correctly.
So should I bring my Leaf to Arcadia and you'll troubleshoot "my problem"? You do have a Nissan Consult III
diagnostic tool, right? We would possibly need an oscilloscope. So I'll bring my 50MHz sampling scope to
check the microcontroller chip in the BMS. Maybe we could read the BMS' micro-code and then disassemble
it to find "my problem". Erratic power-ons to ECUs have known to be problematic for automotive electronics
corrupting the flash memory in an ECU's microcontroller. If that's the case, your Consult III should be able to
re-flash it. But maybe not, since Nissan will probably require our logging-on to their website to download the
re-flash data file and authorize it. Well, let's give it a try, OK?
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 76K miles, 47 Ahrs, 5.0 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=73, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 10.3K miles, SOH 109Ahrs/115Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

hmmwv
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:27 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:52 am

lorenfb, no one is questioning your data, we are just curious how come your 24kWh pack still shows 12 bars with a 75% SOH, the general understanding is that the first bar drops at 85% SOH. This has nothing to do with climate, charging habits, etc.
2013 LEAF SL w/Premium Pkg, Brilliant Silver, 55,244 miles, LeafSpy: 50.17 AHr, SOH 76%, Hx70.30% as of 11/05/2018, 10 bars, 28 QC, 2129 L2/L2

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14816
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:50 am

Loren's situation may seen impossible but I have to put it in the ever growing list of outliers that seemingly popping up with regularity lately. We also have cars with SOHof 99% and Hx in the low 80's. How does that happen?

First posts I chalk up to user errors or simply unintentional typos. I have done it a ton of times. said one thing when I meant something completely different. Partially my fault. In the morning (its 4:22 am right now) I get up, get coffee started and jump online and open a dozen windows or so and bounce between them. bad habit developed during the days of dial up when it took too long to load and refresh pages.

I should ban myself from posting until the 2nd cup of coffee.

FYI; 2011 44,598 miles, 256 GIDs, 56 ahr, SOH/Hx ~ 87% (first bar loss expected around 83%)

2013; 44,940 miles, 262 GIDs, ahr 60.30, Hx 91.50
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 10,081 mi, 95.03% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:49 am

lorenfb wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
lorenfb wrote:
You question my data? Check with Dave (DaveinOlyWA - has one of the highest post counts).
His '13 had about the same mileage with even a higher Ahr reading when it was returned
AND 12 bars.
He is confused by your earlier post stating 51 Ahr and 12 bars.
I think you mean you have 12 bars at 51k miles.

What *is* your Ahrs ?
From my corrected typo post up thread:
How do you explain my 24kWh Leaf at 54k, 12 bars, 51 Ahrs.
Sorry for the confusion. An additional data point; SOH = 75%.
Other data:

1. Max battery temp <= 38 deg C
2. Max battery discharge point => 15 Ahrs
3. Typical QC < 15 minutes
4. Typical number of QCs per week ~ 3
5. Always L2 to 100% & 5x per week
6. Typical freeway speed 50 - 55 MPH, resulting in a typical battery power
of 15 - 20kW (level terrain)
7. Average miles per kWh - 5.1 (expected range @ 30-40 MPH - 2 miles/Ahrs)
8. Typical max range before QC needed - 60-65 miles (assumes min Ahrs>15)
Did I miss your report of an Ahr rating from LeafSpy on a full charge ?
Your (8) is not helpful. If you provide a start Ahr, end Ahr, and Odometer change for a 50+ mile trip it would make some sense. Collect a few so we can gauge precision of the test or combine them for an estimate.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:06 am

I agree that lorenFB either has a quirky meter or he is playing games with us (or both.)
I think it reasonable to ignore data about his car until he posts current photos of LeafSpy and his car meter.

Certainly his poorly reported range +/- remaining Ahrs implies severe degradation:
At ~ 5 miles per kWh his 60 - 65 miles of travel = 12 - 13.2 kWh used
"At least 15 Ahrs" remaining, based on 66 Ahr/24 kWh in a new battery, is equal to 5.45 kWh
So his battery has between 17.45 - 18.65 kWh capacity. That indeed would be a ballpark SOH of ~ 75

Whatever, it does not change the large body of reports documenting loss of range and LeafSpy stated capacity
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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