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Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:53 am
by lkkms2
jbuntz wrote:
lkkms2 wrote:Here is my first year report.

Bought my 2017 Leaf SV Just at the end of 2016 on 12/29
Using an old version of Leaf Spy Lite I recorded
AHr= 81.32 and Hlth = 97.24%

Now, after driving 9500 Miles on 12/29/2017 my readings are:
AHr= 72.68 and Hlth = 86.85%

So about a 10 1/2 percent loss. after 1 year and 9500 Miles.

Occasionally charge to 100% to balance out the cells, but drive it shortly after that.

Taking advantage of the NCTC Card, so
QC Cnt = 145 ( generally charge up to btwn 80-90%, often 85%)
L2 Cnt = 206 (Since I use a timer this number is about double actual charging events)

My garage is facing the West and gets a lot of Summer warming/hot sun in the 90s F.

At that rate you will have capacity close to your 2011 with a new battery. Maybe you should have kept it?
Actually, glad to have sold my 2011 Leaf with new battery to a friend that wanted a used EV, but drove less than I did. She got rid of her old gas gusseler SUV which polluted a lot more for all her short trips.

I have enjoyed the improvements and new features in my 2017 SV with Premium Package.

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:06 am
by SageBrush
cwerdna wrote: Please see my response at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 59#p510059 again.
OK, I read it again. I sort of see where you are coming from but I am not sure why you are uncomfortable with Volt and Amp*hr readings.

As for the battery warranty to percent correlation, your statements regarding written verbiage from Nissan are no doubt accurate; but IIRC Nissan Reps have mentioned the ~ 70% threshold, which is why I keep harping on it. I'll follow up with links if I come across them again.

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:33 am
by Gimpster
Hey everyone, lately my wife who's been using the LEAF (we tend to swap usage depending on season, I drive it in the Summer) had complained to me about GOM range. Yes, its been cold here in Iowa, but never the less, I broke out leafspy after noticing a capacity bar is missing.

Manf. Date: 11/2015
Delivery Date: 5/13/2016
Delivery Miles: 301
Delivery SOH%: 93

I tracked SOH religiously until mid-October 2016. At that point my wife started using it for the Winter, and she can't be bothered with all that. It went from 93% to 90% by about 5000 miles. After delivery, it SOH actually went UP to 96% until about 2400 miles when it started to decline again.

Current data:

Miles: 14354
AHr: 66.69
SOH%: 84
Hx%: 80.14
QC: 1
L1/L2: 786

The car is a 36mo lease, I just drive the thing. I have a dumb L2 charger at home that doesn't allow for any fancy SOC%, and since Nissan removed it from the software.. .I've not really cared. Our commutes are roughly ~25 miles each way, so I'm not too worried. That said, kinda disappointed and it will be interesting to see where this ends up as time goes on.

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:41 pm
by webeleafowners
So, has there been enough empirical info collected to determine if this is still a heat related thing? For those of us in cooler climates (at least 9 months of the year) are we going to get a pass and be able to enjoy our 2016 leafs (manufactured April 2016) for years of trouble free driving without losing half our range by year three? Been following this thread and kind of getting depressed...or paranoid at least. Anyone got a crystal ball or should we be planning a trade in next year. :roll:

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:13 pm
by HIOJim
Gimpster wrote:Hey everyone, lately my wife who's been using the LEAF (we tend to swap usage depending on season, I drive it in the Summer) had complained to me about GOM range. Yes, its been cold here in Iowa, but never the less, I broke out leafspy after noticing a capacity bar is missing.

Manf. Date: 11/2015
Delivery Date: 5/13/2016
Delivery Miles: 301
Delivery SOH%: 93

I tracked SOH religiously until mid-October 2016. At that point my wife started using it for the Winter, and she can't be bothered with all that. It went from 93% to 90% by about 5000 miles. After delivery, it SOH actually went UP to 96% until about 2400 miles when it started to decline again.

Current data:

Miles: 14354
AHr: 66.69
SOH%: 84
Hx%: 80.14
QC: 1
L1/L2: 786

The car is a 36mo lease, I just drive the thing. I have a dumb L2 charger at home that doesn't allow for any fancy SOC%, and since Nissan removed it from the software.. .I've not really cared. Our commutes are roughly ~25 miles each way, so I'm not too worried. That said, kinda disappointed and it will be interesting to see where this ends up as time goes on.
For an interesting comparison, here's my car's stats:

Manf. Date: 12/2015
Delivery Date: 3/31/2016
Delivery Miles: 25
Delivery SOH%: 100
Delivery Hx: 97.60
QC: 1
L1/L2: 4

Current data:

Miles: 7112
AHr: 67.79
SOH%: 85.29
Hx%: 80.41
QC: 1
L1/L2: 228

It would seem that I might be on the ragged edge of losing a capacity bar as well. And it is sobering that both our cars have relatively low mileage and yet have experienced such extreme capacity loss. I have a 24-month lease so I at least have the option to return the car in a couple of months.

For comparison purposes, here was the last LeafSpy capture I did before turning in my 2013 S:

Miles: 10430
AHr: 60.74
SOH%: 92
Hx%: 93.29
QC: 3
L1/L2: 828

This was after about 2.5 years of use and i drove it in the same location in much the same was as I did the 2016 SL. So to those who say the capacity loss is due to unwise charging habits, I humbly offer my data as a counter argument.

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:16 pm
by HIOJim
webeleafowners wrote:So, has there been enough empirical info collected to determine if this is still a heat related thing? For those of us in cooler climates (at least 9 months of the year) are we going to get a pass and be able to enjoy our 2016 leafs (manufactured April 2016) for years of trouble free driving without losing half our range by year three? Been following this thread and kind of getting depressed...or paranoid at least. Anyone got a crystal ball or should we be planning a trade in next year. :roll:
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean your battery isn't after you. :)

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:18 pm
by webeleafowners
HIOJim wrote:
webeleafowners wrote:So, has there been enough empirical info collected to determine if this is still a heat related thing? For those of us in cooler climates (at least 9 months of the year) are we going to get a pass and be able to enjoy our 2016 leafs (manufactured April 2016) for years of trouble free driving without losing half our range by year three? Been following this thread and kind of getting depressed...or paranoid at least. Anyone got a crystal ball or should we be planning a trade in next year. :roll:
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean your battery isn't after you. :)
:D

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:23 pm
by Gimpster
Well, that's pretty interesting context on your '13! I'm kinda kicking myself now for paying extra per month for the 30 vs 24. We didn't need the range for our commuting use case, and .... well now I'm on my way to owning a 24 anyway.
HIOJim wrote: For comparison purposes, here was the last LeafSpy capture I did before turning in my 2013 S:

Miles: 10430
AHr: 60.74
SOH%: 92
Hx%: 93.29
QC: 3
L1/L2: 828

This was after about 2.5 years of use and i drove it in the same location in much the same was as I did the 2016 SL. So to those who say the capacity loss is due to unwise charging habits, I humbly offer my data as a counter argument.

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:52 pm
by Oils4AsphaultOnly
Gimpster wrote:Well, that's pretty interesting context on your '13! I'm kinda kicking myself now for paying extra per month for the 30 vs 24. We didn't need the range for our commuting use case, and .... well now I'm on my way to owning a 24 anyway.
HIOJim wrote: For comparison purposes, here was the last LeafSpy capture I did before turning in my 2013 S:

Miles: 10430
AHr: 60.74
SOH%: 92
Hx%: 93.29
QC: 3
L1/L2: 828

This was after about 2.5 years of use and i drove it in the same location in much the same was as I did the 2016 SL. So to those who say the capacity loss is due to unwise charging habits, I humbly offer my data as a counter argument.
There's one bright-side with the 30kwh version - longer battery warranty (8y/100,000 miles). So it's not all doom-n-gloom.

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:54 pm
by cwerdna
Seems like not many updates have been happening to http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Real ... 3.75.25.29 and I don't see any 4 bar 2016 30 kWh losers there yet. (I'd do it if I find some free time...)

Here are links to the 30 kWh 4 bar losers I'm aware of, so far. Please chime if I'm missing any 30 kWh 4+ bar losers or made mistakes. I've included their initials or MNL user name to help avoid confusion or duplication.

1) bakermel1, Phoenix, AZ, Sep 2017:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 82#p506782
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 19#p506819

2) SB, Phoenix, AZ, Sep 2017: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 13#p506613

3) samrovner, Surprise, AZ, Nov 2017: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 24#p510024

4) LG, Chandler, AZ, Nov 2017: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 03#p512503

5) ST, Orlando, FL, Dec 2017: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 52#p514452

6) dfwpev, Dallas, TX, Dec 2017: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 59#p514659

7) BB, Lake Buena Vista, FL, Dec 2017: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 29#p514929