SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:10 pm

vishvik wrote:Hi, I have a 2016 Leaf SV (leased in July 2016) and have about 22K miles. Last week, I lost my 3rd capacity bar!! I still have 16 months to go on my 3-year lease. Wondering what's the best option for me going forward. I didn't take it to the dealership yet to figure out what's going on.
My Atlanta daily commute is 60 miles and I go to work 4 days a week. I use a level-2 charger each night.
Thanks in advance for any advice!
Nothing to do. When the 4rth capacity bar drops then take the car to Nissan for a warranted battery replacement.
If I understand correctly, the dealership will charge you ~ $100 for a "battery check" that will be reimbursed when the warranty is authorized.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

iPlug
Posts: 420
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Apr 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:25 pm

SageBrush wrote:If I understand correctly, the dealership will charge you ~ $100 for a "battery check" that will be reimbursed when the warranty is authorized.
We were charged nothing for the annual battery check or when we dropped the 4th bar recently. Not sure if others have had different experiences.
'19 Model 3 SR+ (own), '19 Leaf SV (leased), '12 Plug-in Prius (sold 3/19), '16 Leaf SV (prior lease), 11.43kW Solar PV (16MWh/yr real production), 20.5 SEER/13.0 HSPF ducted air-source heat pump, 3.70 UEF heat pump water heater, Induction Cooktop

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14157
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:35 am

We have another from the Pacific Northwest in a climate that is nearly identical to mine (only 50 miles away) so we can continue to blame the weather right?

We are blameless right?

The reality is we DO have options but Nissan has simply made it a challenge. One that could be easily fixed by adding custom charging options.

The car above; driven lightly, only charged the the top half of the pack with level one. Lost first bar around 16K miles or so.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 25,185 miles SOH 92.23%
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

iPlug
Posts: 420
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Apr 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:56 am

Chemistry may be at least as significant as climate for the 30 kWh battery.

Our 6 year old Plug-in Prius has a higher percent battery capacity remaining than our 2 year old 30 kWh Leaf. Both are air cooled, have the same number of EV miles driven, and of course, the climate is identical.

The Prius is mine, and I do baby the thing more. I routinely charge in the coolest hours of the morning before I leave for work. They wife has the Leaf and is less adherent to that regimen. Also, I routinely park in a parking structure at work, out of the sun and the thermal mass of the structure prevents the highest temperature exposure.

But if plug-ins are to go mainstream, they should not have to be pampered so much.
'19 Model 3 SR+ (own), '19 Leaf SV (leased), '12 Plug-in Prius (sold 3/19), '16 Leaf SV (prior lease), 11.43kW Solar PV (16MWh/yr real production), 20.5 SEER/13.0 HSPF ducted air-source heat pump, 3.70 UEF heat pump water heater, Induction Cooktop

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:11 am

iPlug wrote:Chemistry may be at least as significant as climate for the 30 kWh battery.

Our 6 year old Plug-in Prius has a higher percent battery capacity remaining than our 2 year old 30 kWh Leaf. Both are air cooled, have the same number of EV miles driven, and of course, the climate is identical.

The Prius is mine, and I do baby the thing more. I routinely charge in the coolest hours of the morning before I leave for work. They wife has the Leaf and is less adherent to that regimen. Also, I routinely park in a parking structure at work, out of the sun and the thermal mass of the structure prevents the highest temperature exposure.

But if plug-ins are to go mainstream, they should not have to be pampered so much.
The Prius plug-in has a TMS and active cooling using air
The LEAF does not have a TMS and cooling is passive via conduction

Moreover, the Prius reserves some ~ 35% of capacity that is not usable.

There are of course more differences, e.g use of the Prius after the usable battery is depleted, allowing ambient airflow at vehicle speeds to flow by the battery.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14157
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:15 am

iPlug wrote:Chemistry may be at least as significant as climate for the 30 kWh battery.

Our 6 year old Plug-in Prius has a higher percent battery capacity remaining than our 2 year old 30 kWh Leaf. Both are air cooled, have the same number of EV miles driven, and of course, the climate is identical.

The Prius is mine, and I do baby the thing more. I routinely charge in the coolest hours of the morning before I leave for work. They wife has the Leaf and is less adherent to that regimen. Also, I routinely park in a parking structure at work, out of the sun and the thermal mass of the structure prevents the highest temperature exposure.

But if plug-ins are to go mainstream, they should not have to be pampered so much.

what "exactly" is the true state of your Prius battery and how did you determine it?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 25,185 miles SOH 92.23%
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

iPlug
Posts: 420
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Apr 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:12 am

I have no hard numbers including no prior run of any diagnostics on the Plug-in Prius. I have also never measured kWh consumed from empty to full.

Rather I have noted how far the battery lasts from full to empty on the same commute and routes for the time of year. I have lost ~20-25% since new with this metric.

Our Leaf, by comparison has lost about 35-40% actual driving range.
'19 Model 3 SR+ (own), '19 Leaf SV (leased), '12 Plug-in Prius (sold 3/19), '16 Leaf SV (prior lease), 11.43kW Solar PV (16MWh/yr real production), 20.5 SEER/13.0 HSPF ducted air-source heat pump, 3.70 UEF heat pump water heater, Induction Cooktop

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14157
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:20 am

iPlug wrote:I have no hard numbers including no prior run of any diagnostics on the Plug-in Prius. I have also never measured kWh consumed from empty to full.

Rather I have noted how far the battery lasts from full to empty on the same commute and routes for the time of year. I have lost ~20-25% since new with this metric.

Our Leaf, by comparison has lost about 35-40% actual driving range.

25% loss on the Prius is ....well rather shocking. Isn't the DoD only like 60-70%?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 25,185 miles SOH 92.23%
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

iPlug
Posts: 420
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Apr 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:37 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:25% loss on the Prius is ....well rather shocking. Isn't the DoD only like 60-70%?
That is a loss of usable capacity of 20-25%.

IIRC, the Plug-in Prius can use low 20% minimum to low to mid 80% of actual battery capacity. So 20-25% of that window is lost, which is about 10-15%.
'19 Model 3 SR+ (own), '19 Leaf SV (leased), '12 Plug-in Prius (sold 3/19), '16 Leaf SV (prior lease), 11.43kW Solar PV (16MWh/yr real production), 20.5 SEER/13.0 HSPF ducted air-source heat pump, 3.70 UEF heat pump water heater, Induction Cooktop

iPlug
Posts: 420
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Apr 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:30 pm

The useable capacity of the Plug-in Prius battery is between 85% and 23% (62% of 4.4 kWh [2.73 kWh]).

https://priuschat.com/threads/citation- ... ty.136428/

What I was saying is that I lost 20-25% of the useable capacity after 6 years. So 0.2(62%) to 0.25(62%) lost. Not 62% - 20% to 62% -25% lost.
'19 Model 3 SR+ (own), '19 Leaf SV (leased), '12 Plug-in Prius (sold 3/19), '16 Leaf SV (prior lease), 11.43kW Solar PV (16MWh/yr real production), 20.5 SEER/13.0 HSPF ducted air-source heat pump, 3.70 UEF heat pump water heater, Induction Cooktop

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