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Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:57 pm
by cwerdna
Update to http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 01#p519601

Seems like not many updates have been happening to http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Real ... 3.75.25.29 for 2016 Leafs.

Here are links to the 30 kWh 4 bar losers I'm aware of, so far. Please chime if I'm missing any 30 kWh 4+ bar losers, made mistakes, double-counted someone, etc. I've included their initials or MNL user name to help avoid confusion or duplication. I may go back and eventually add approximate mileages when the loss was reported but will round to the nearest 100 miles or so. But, IMHO, it doesn't seem that relevant except in cases of extremely high mileage.

1) bakermel1, Phoenix, AZ, Sep 2017:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 82#p506782
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 19#p506819
2) SB, Phoenix, AZ, Sep 2017: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 13#p506613
3) samrovner, Surprise, AZ, Nov 2017: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 24#p510024
4) LG, Chandler, AZ, Nov 2017: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 03#p512503
5) ST, Orlando, FL, Dec 2017: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 52#p514452
6) dfwpev aka Ron, Dallas, TX, Dec 2017: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 59#p514659
7) BB, Lake Buena Vista, FL, Dec 2017: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 29#p514929
8) slflores91, Las Vegas, NV, Oct/Nov 2017: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 72#p510772
9) CC, Highland, CA, Feb 2018: https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan. ... 694281530/ - says he has a '16 SV built 10/15, delivered 5/16
10) LTLFTcomposite's family member, Orlando, FL, 18.7K miles, Feb 2018: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 27#p519527 and http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 18#p520718
11) Maggie, Port St Lucie, FL, Feb 2018: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 24#p519524
12) iPlug, Rocklin, CA, Feb 2018: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 97#p520197
13) BB, Celebration, FL,10K miles, Mar 2018: https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan. ... 594159173/
---------------------------------
Side note: 3 bar loser (WL) in Los Angeles, CA at 10K miles at https://www.facebook.com/groups/NissanL ... 837110764/.

Seems like these '16 30 kWh packs are dropping like flies in warmer and hot climates. Still wonder if there are bad batch(es), a bad range in terms of production date(s) or if it's inherent to these packs or model year '16 packs.

Let me know if deleting out the newlines/blank lines between each entry makes this list look too crowded.

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:15 pm
by LeftieBiker
It would make sense to also solicit reports from those who have lost zero bars and have more than 90% or so SOH, in an effort to determine what if any climatic and other conditions these batteries find tolerable.

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:26 pm
by cwerdna
LeftieBiker wrote:It would make sense to also solicit reports from those who have lost zero bars and have more than 90% or so SOH, in an effort to determine what if any climatic and other conditions these batteries find tolerable.
Perhaps, but they all start out with all bars and over 90% SOH.

Questions: What age or mileage threshold should we be asking about? Should we wait until they're say 1.5 or 2 years old, starting from build month? Or, should it be that they've passed thru 1.5 to 2 summers since built?

DaveinOlyWA had excellent stats on his 2016 S 30 before it was wrecked, but he was in the mild PNW AND it was an S 30, making it relatively new vs. all most 2016 SV and SL. I first heard about the "S 30" from https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... gher-price which is dated Oct 11, 2016.

From http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2018/01 ... e-all.html, he said
Her final epitaph;

29,412 miles, Ahr; 82.34, SOH; 100%, Hx 97.51%, 257 QCs, 263 L2's.

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:02 am
by LeftieBiker
I think that because of the calendar issue, it would make sense to start with Just 2016 30kwh Leafs, and ask for LeafSpy and other stats, like location, build date, and charging habits, from cars with 95% (93% ?) or better SOH. Later on it would make more sense to ask for 2017 cars with 95% or better SOH as well. We want to figure out if there are whole regions of the US and Canada where they don't degrade fast, or if it's more a case of an occasional car "getting lucky" by not getting hot enough for long enough to degrade fast. That kind of info might also support or finally refute entirely the "bad batch" hypothesis.

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:06 am
by cwerdna
^^^^
DaveinOlyWA tried to gather some info at https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattle ... 270719569/ from those in the PNW. That was back in Dec 2017. He got a whopping 0 replies.

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:39 am
by LeftieBiker
cwerdna wrote:^^^^
DaveinOlyWA tried to gather some info at https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattle ... 270719569/ from those in the PNW. That was back in Dec 2017. He got a whopping 0 replies.
We'd have to rely on people posting here. There will be a natural bias towards bar losers, because people with zero issues don't seek out this site as often as those with problems. Auction info was critical in discovering the Canary pack problem with the 2013 Leaf; maybe it could help with this as well, when more 2016 cars get auctioned.

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:02 am
by RegGuheert
LeftieBiker wrote:Auction info was critical in discovering the Canary pack problem with the 2013 Leaf; maybe it could help with this as well, when more 2016 cars get auctioned.
The difference is that the 2016 cars have a much better degradation warranty, so even if they are degrading faster, fewer are likely to get auctioned, at least not prior to battery replacement.

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:22 am
by LeftieBiker
RegGuheert wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:Auction info was critical in discovering the Canary pack problem with the 2013 Leaf; maybe it could help with this as well, when more 2016 cars get auctioned.
The difference is that the 2016 cars have a much better degradation warranty, so even if they are degrading faster, fewer are likely to get auctioned, at least not prior to battery replacement.
I think the people leasing the car will, after experiencing prolonged degradation and range loss, followed by the installation of the very same crappy battery, will turn it in without a second thought. They will then get another brand of EV - or a PHEV.

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:55 am
by Durandal
LeftieBiker wrote:
RegGuheert wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:Auction info was critical in discovering the Canary pack problem with the 2013 Leaf; maybe it could help with this as well, when more 2016 cars get auctioned.
The difference is that the 2016 cars have a much better degradation warranty, so even if they are degrading faster, fewer are likely to get auctioned, at least not prior to battery replacement.
I think the people leasing the car will, after experiencing prolonged degradation and range loss, followed by the installation of the very same crappy battery, will turn it in without a second thought. They will then get another brand of EV - or a PHEV.
Or those of us with long memories regarding our 24kWh packs... Mine is about to drop it's 4th bar in about a month, and the warranty expired 3 months ago, with 42,000 miles. If Nissan decides to pay for half or more of the replacement pack, I will replace the pack, upgrade my TCU, and continue with it for a few years, and not write Nissan off as a brand. However, if they tell me to pound sand, I will limp along with my Leaf until I get my Model 3 at the end of this year, then sell the Leaf for a pittance.

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:44 am
by RegGuheert
Durandal wrote:Or those of us with long memories regarding our 24kWh packs... Mine is about to drop it's 4th bar in about a month, and the warranty expired 3 months ago, with 42,000 miles. If Nissan decides to pay for half or more of the replacement pack, I will replace the pack, upgrade my TCU, and continue with it for a few years, and not write Nissan off as a brand. However, if they tell me to pound sand, I will limp along with my Leaf until I get my Model 3 at the end of this year, then sell the Leaf for a pittance.
I have a long memory and I remember signing a document at the time I purchased my LEAF specifically stating that the car had no warranty against gradual capacity loss. IMO, the fact that Nissan later added such a warranty to address a product deficiency in that arena should not be held against them, particularly since they even extended the warranty past its written provisions for some customers.