SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: 2015 "lizard" and 2016 24 kWh S battery capacity bar losers

Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:47 am

LeftieBiker wrote: I speculate that the car wasn't cooling off enough because of moist air retaining heat and keeping overnight lows above the point where rapid pack cooling starts - below 68-70F.
There is no such thing. Look up Newton's law of heating for the physics.
It is true that higher humidity nights tend to be warmer but I think that is related to cloud cover. An offsetting effect though would be a higher heat capacity of the humid ambient air.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
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2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

evtifosi
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:15 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Sep 2015
Location: Monterey Bay/Central Coast, CA

Re: 2015 "lizard" and 2016 24 kWh S battery capacity bar losers

Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:09 am

Here is the "problem" with my 2015 car. We purchased it "new" from a dealer in the inland East Bay, Walnut Creek specifically, in September of 2015.

The car had been traded from another dealer, most likely from Dublin or Tracy. I am not sure of the actual original delivery of the car to the dealer by Nissan, but the build date was in 10/2014 - so the car was almost a year old when we purchased it, and it most likely was parked all that summer - probably at near 100% charge - in one of the hotter areas of California.

Once it was brought to our location it took me a while to do a battery check, as I didn't learn about Leaf Spy and battery values until a few months later. When I did that check the battery was already around SOH 92% - it bounced around that area for 2 years. It even bounced up to 96%-97% a few times after heavy use. So I had hope it was a good battery.

So in summary I bought a car with potentially 8% reduction right at the start, and over my 3+ years of ownership I then lost about 7% more to lose the first bar.

We very rarely charged to 100% at home - and did lots and lots of short trips - probably adding to the battery degradation more than someone who drives more miles than we do. We only have driven it 12,000 miles in 3-1/2 years!

The car was garaged in an insulated garage - and it is always cool here at night, which is when we scheduled the car to recharge. Most out of the home charging would have been local Santa Cruz and Monterey charging spots - with a few trips sprinkled in to San Jose, Gilroy etc...L2 only.

The car never even saw turtle mode until last summer when we finally decided to see how long that would take and drove it around the neighborhood to get to turtle. Once at turtle mode we charged it back up right away. After that recharge cycle for the first time I saw the battery voltage levels all nicely balanced.

I think IF I had bought the car with more knowledge, and started with a better battery, I would still have 12 bars.

Buying a local car would have cost me over $6,000 more - so I guess that is the price for getting a car already degraded a bit more than it could have been.

We are looking at selling this car at some point. It is still in great condition, and has low miles so it will sell for something.

We are toying with the idea of leasing our next Nissan Leaf - not purchasing.
2015 SV Leaf - 1 bar lost as of 1/2019

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14226
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2015 "lizard" and 2016 24 kWh S battery capacity bar losers

Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:03 am

Not trying to piss anyone off but we have a Washingtonian who rolled 125,000 miles on his 2015 with SOH at 90%. He did it by simply not being in a hurry and minimizing time at high SOC.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 412 mi, 99.72% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

evtifosi
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:15 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Sep 2015
Location: Monterey Bay/Central Coast, CA

Re: 2015 "lizard" and 2016 24 kWh S battery capacity bar losers

Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:05 am

We rarely charge to 100% and usually drive it right after when/if we do. We charge it when it gets around 20% and charge up to the 80's.

But I really think that low mileage/usage, like ours gets, is harder on the battery than high usage.
2015 SV Leaf - 1 bar lost as of 1/2019

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14226
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2015 "lizard" and 2016 24 kWh S battery capacity bar losers

Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:45 am

evtifosi wrote:We rarely charge to 100% and usually drive it right after when/if we do. We charge it when it gets around 20% and charge up to the 80's.

But I really think that low mileage/usage, like ours gets, is harder on the battery than high usage.

Time is a factor for sure. Having 125, 000 miles on a car that is 4 to 5½ years old is a lot of driving in a short period of time. Just another example of EVs thriving on exercise. Something you might consider is charging daily. If you don't drive much, then charge for 2 hours a day... or one hour a day. Whatever it takes.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 412 mi, 99.72% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

evtifosi
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:15 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Sep 2015
Location: Monterey Bay/Central Coast, CA

Re: 2015 "lizard" and 2016 24 kWh S battery capacity bar losers

Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:06 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:Time is a factor for sure. Having 125, 000 miles on a car that is 4 to 5½ years old is a lot of driving in a short period of time. Just another example of EVs thriving on exercise. Something you might consider is charging daily. If you don't drive much, then charge for 2 hours a day... or one hour a day. Whatever it takes.
Interesting idea to charge it every day - might get us to 100% pretty quick. Maybe if we did 20 minutes each day it would boost it up just a little at a time - or I could just lower my output wattage on my Open EVSE...hmmm

Right now we charge about 2 times per week - from 20% to 80-85% - and every other week or so to 100%.

------

My wife is pretty interested in the new 2019 LEAF+ 62k model while I would be more than happy getting a used 2018 or a lease deal. She got to test drive one a couple of weeks ago at a Nissan Drive event and has been raving about it since then.

2022 was our target for upgrading to a new (used) EV - but I see that being pushed up to early next year. I guess it depends on what the real world pricing is for the older models.
2015 SV Leaf - 1 bar lost as of 1/2019

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14226
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2015 "lizard" and 2016 24 kWh S battery capacity bar losers

Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:16 pm

evtifosi wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:Time is a factor for sure. Having 125, 000 miles on a car that is 4 to 5½ years old is a lot of driving in a short period of time. Just another example of EVs thriving on exercise. Something you might consider is charging daily. If you don't drive much, then charge for 2 hours a day... or one hour a day. Whatever it takes.
Interesting idea to charge it every day - might get us to 100% pretty quick. Maybe if we did 20 minutes each day it would boost it up just a little at a time - or I could just lower my output wattage on my Open EVSE...hmmm

Right now we charge about 2 times per week - from 20% to 80-85% - and every other week or so to 100%.

------

My wife is pretty interested in the new 2019 LEAF+ 62k model while I would be more than happy getting a used 2018 or a lease deal. She got to test drive one a couple of weeks ago at a Nissan Drive event and has been raving about it since then.

2022 was our target for upgrading to a new (used) EV - but I see that being pushed up to early next year. I guess it depends on what the real world pricing is for the older models.
I have done nearly every possible charging scenario available on my LEAF and whether it was coincidence, the seasons or the phase of the Moon, my lowest rate of degradation happened when I charged to 70% SOC on fast charger the night before my work week started then charged 90 mins every morning starting on day 2. I would simply plug in when I got up in the morning and unplug when leaving for work. My SOC basically dropped a few % per day... I would start the week at 70% SOC and at the end of the week, I would be around 35% SOC when getting home burning up roughly 17-20% per day.

I am guessing that the 40 kwh LEAFs will be discounted a bit when the 62's are populating the lots so I would keep an eye out. Right now, incentives seem to be on the most expensive trims...
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 412 mi, 99.72% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Valdemar
Posts: 2630
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: 2015 "lizard" and 2016 24 kWh S battery capacity bar losers

Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:47 pm

3 years 62k miles on a replacement lizard pack. 20% SOH down in SoCal. No hard data but seems just marginally better than the original. Charging to 100% daily, could be a factor.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB), -1CB(53.92Ahr)@140k/29mo,
51.1AHr, SOH 80%, 150k miles

9kW Solar

User avatar
mwalsh
Posts: 9644
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 05 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0213
Location: Garden Grove, CA

Re: 2015 "lizard" and 2016 24 kWh S battery capacity bar losers

Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:40 am

Valdemar wrote:3 years 62k miles on a replacement lizard pack. 20% SOH down in SoCal. No hard data but seems just marginally better than the original. Charging to 100% daily, could be a factor.
Concur. And I've only been charging the new pack to 80%, 98% of the time. And driving fewer miles.
2011 Blue Ocean SL with 84,000 miles
2015 pack on 12/30/15
Tinted windows
Bosch AGM 12v
Ecopia 422+ tires
L1 EVSE upgrade
FIAMM horns
Superbright LED lighting
2013 sun visors
LED shifter
Heated seats
GT-R map lamp lenses
Altima illuminated door switches

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