Trickle Charging Extremely Slow!

Hi there Leafers,

I'm using the standard EVSE from Nissan which came from the prior owner, purchased with the quick-charge upgrade. This thing looks brand new and the installation screws were still in the package. I have a 2018 LEAF S with the optional quick-charge package installed.

I'm using a 120v outlet for trickle charging. By my estimates, assuming 24 hours to charge from 0-151, I should get 6 miles per hour. However, over the course of many hours I'm only seeing 1 extra mile added to range, from 64 to 65 (so it's not like I'm trying to charge to 100% and seeing a plateau).

Any ideas? I want to try a different outlet, but this would require an extension cord as it's blocked by the storage cabinet that came with the garage when I bought the place.

I'm working on getting a Level 2 charger installed (collecting bids). If anyone knows a great installed in the Santa Clarita area (for a townhome, challenging install), I'm all eyes.

Any ideas? Is it safe to use an extension cord for a bit just to see if I can see a difference? I have a heavy duty one for garage use, but I don't know its exact specs.

Thanks!

Spacep0d

You need to look at the charge percentage (how full the battery is) not the range estimate on the GOM. Trickle charging (120v) is slow. Moving to another outlet is not going to change anything. You will just have to suffer through the slow charging until you get a Level 2 EVSE installed.

Technically according to NEC we are not supposed to use an extension cord on an evse.
NEC assumes we are all stupid and will use a cheap cord, melt it down and burn down our houses.
What year leaf is it?
You may already have a L2 evse.

The cheapest way to get level 2 charging is to get a duosida 16 amp evse.
I got mine for $160.

12 amp level 1 charging sucks. It only puts about 1,400 watts into your car.
A 16 amp level 2 charger will do more like 3,800 watts.
It will cut your turtle to 100% charge time from more than 24hr down to around 10 hours.

Get a full 50 amp circuit installed. Trust me if you hate 1.4kw charging you are really going to like 3.8kw charging and you will love 6.6kw if your car can do 6.6kw. If not your next car will likely do 6.6kw or higher.

I went from 1.4kw to 2.9kw when I modded my original leaf evse to run 240v, then I bought the duosida evse which gave me 3.8kw then stepped up to a 7.2kw home chademo.

Did you charge over night and not get enough range to go where you needed to go in the morning?

With 120 volt L-1 charging it doesn't matter if the EVSE is upgraded for L-2 charging. You are still only feeding it 120 volts. And yes, you need to read the charge percentage, not the range estimator! You can also tell roughly by looking at the three blue charge lights on top of the dashboard: if one is lit and flashing, you have less than 33% charge. If one is lit and one is flashing, you have between 33% and 66% charge. If two are lit and the third is flashing, you have between 66% and 99% charge. When all three lights are lit solid, the car is pretty much fully charged but is equalizing the cells. That only lasts a few minutes, usually. When all three lights go out after that, the car is fully charged and equalized.

How cold is it where you are? If it's very cold (sub 15 degrees?) The battery heater could be kicking in and sapping your charge rate. You can certainly try an extension cord, especially just for a temporary test. If you have a multi-meter, it would also be good to measure the voltage before and during a charge to see the the voltage is dipping too much.

P.S. If you would fill in your user profile with your general location, we wouldn't have to ask about the weather.

Level 1 consumes about 1400 watts, or 1.4kWH per hour, from the wall. Not all of that gets into the battery as there are conversion losses, plus energy required to power the coolant pump, etc.. My rule of thumb is L1 gives me about 4 miles of range per hour. Your mileage may vary depending on how efficient your driving is. Some folks here can squeeze a lot more out of a kWH than me.

Note - if you are leaving the car "on" while charging, to view its progress, keep in mind the onboard computer and displays will consume an additional portion of the meager L1 power input, slowing down the charge further. Even worse if you've got other systems on (fan, etc).

Not sure what it would do for the distance-to-empty estimation but leaving the car on might also explain why the estimation is not improving (computer interpreting this as you "driving" but sitting idle in traffic and consuming power). I'm speculating here as the only time I've left the car on while charging is with fast-charging, where the effect would be far smaller.

I agree with Nubo: expect around 4 miles per hour of charging, roughly speaking. But this is with the car plugged in and powered off. If you have the car on, that car itself will use 100-200W of power for computers, pumps, and accessories. Turn on the AC or heater and your power consumption can EASILY exceed the charging power, draining the battery or making a charge take forever.

L1 charging is very slow, but if you have the car off, it will work. I've had the car nearly a year, and all we have is L1 charging, and it works fine. We drive the car during the day and charge it overnight. It's always charged the next morning.

Note: L1 charging takes about 20-24 hours when the car is brand new. Since ours is degraded and only provides ~12kWh usable capacity, it charges "twice as fast" (12 hours from completely empty).

baustin said:

You need to look at the charge percentage (how full the battery is) not the range estimate on the GOM. Trickle charging (120v) is slow. Moving to another outlet is not going to change anything. You will just have to suffer through the slow charging until you get a Level 2 EVSE installed.

Click to expand...

Howdy,

Thanks. How do I see how full the battery is beyond the percentage shown on the dash? Yeah I didn't suspect anything would change with another outlet but I was out of things to try. 120v is just too slow to be sustainable in any way for me, even with this long weekend.

LeftieBiker said:

With 120 volt L-1 charging it doesn't matter if the EVSE is upgraded for L-2 charging. You are still only feeding it 120 volts. And yes, you need to read the charge percentage, not the range estimator! You can also tell roughly by looking at the three blue charge lights on top of the dashboard: if one is lit and flashing, you have less than 33% charge. If one is lit and one is flashing, you have between 33% and 66% charge. If two are lit and the third is flashing, you have between 66% and 99% charge. When all three lights are lit solid, the car is pretty much fully charged but is equalizing the cells. That only last a few minutes, usually. When all three lights go out after that, the car is fully charged and equalized.

Click to expand...

Indeed. I have the adapter on the Nissan EVSE for Level 1, so I expected slow, but it's so much slower than I anticipated (even knowing the 24 hour figure). Okay, I'll look at the percentage instead because the range estimator is downright discouraging. Great tip about the blue flashing lights too.

Thanks!

davewill said:

How cold is it where you are? If it's very cold (sub 15 degrees?) The battery heater could be kicking in and sapping your charge rate. You can certainly try an extension cord, especially just for a temporary test. If you have a multi-meter, it would also be good to measure the voltage before and during a charge to see the the voltage is dipping too much.

P.S. If you would fill in your user profile with your general location, we wouldn't have to ask about the weather.

Click to expand...

SoCal, and no longer raining. Very mild here. Maybe 50 degree low at night right now, or slightly colder. I will definitely put my location in. Thanks!

Oilpan4 said:

Technically according to NEC we are not supposed to use an extension cord on an evse.
NEC assumes we are all stupid and will use a cheap cord, melt it down and burn down our houses.
What year leaf is it?
You may already have a L2 evse.

The cheapest way to get level 2 charging is to get a duosida 16 amp evse.
I got mine for $160.

12 amp level 1 charging sucks. It only puts about 1,400 watts into your car.
A 16 amp level 2 charger will do more like 3,800 watts.
It will cut your turtle to 100% charge time from more than 24hr down to around 10 hours.

Get a full 50 amp circuit installed. Trust me if you hate 1.4kw charging you are really going to like 3.8kw charging and you will love 6.6kw if your car can do 6.6kw. If not your next car will likely do 6.6kw or higher.

I went from 1.4kw to 2.9kw when I modded my original leaf evse to run 240v, then I bought the duosida evse which gave me 3.8kw then stepped up to a 7.2kw home chademo.

Did you charge over night and not get enough range to go where you needed to go in the morning?

Click to expand...

Howdy,

Yes, I do have a Level 2 EVSE cable (the one that you get when you add the optional quick-charge port to the S) and it has the adapter for 120v. I also bought another EVSE from Chargepoint (hard-wired) and am collecting estimates to install a Level 2 charger in my garage.

Interesting about the 16a EVSE. That is a great way to save some initial cost, and 10 hours is manageable for a commuter. I also commute by motorcycle, but don't want to be forced to ride if I want to drive every day for any reason.

I have a 2018 LEAF S with the quick-charge upgrade, so L2 should do the full 6.6kW or higher. I tested L2 charging at a local L2 Chargepoint nearby and it went pretty quick, though obviously not as fast as L3. What is your 7.2kW CHAdeMO setup? From the looks of it, my Chargepoint EVSE isn't CHAdeMO. Here's the one I bought from Amazon;

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071YDGJYZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I guess I've been looking at the range indicator and have been dismayed by that, instead of looking at battery percentage. This site has set me straight there. I'll also check the blue lights to see what is being indicated.

Thanks!

Nubo said:

Level 1 consumes about 1400 watts, or 1.4kWH per hour, from the wall. Not all of that gets into the battery as there are conversion losses, plus energy required to power the coolant pump, etc.. My rule of thumb is L1 gives me about 4 miles of range per hour. Your mileage may vary depending on how efficient your driving is. Some folks here can squeeze a lot more out of a kWH than me.

Note - if you are leaving the car "on" while charging, to view its progress, keep in mind the onboard computer and displays will consume an additional portion of the meager L1 power input, slowing down the charge further. Even worse if you've got other systems on (fan, etc).

Not sure what it would do for the distance-to-empty estimation but leaving the car on might also explain why the estimation is not improving (computer interpreting this as you "driving" but sitting idle in traffic and consuming power). I'm speculating here as the only time I've left the car on while charging is with fast-charging, where the effect would be far smaller.

Click to expand...

Hi! Yes, I was aware that leaving the car on to check range was using power, but the range was barely moving. I guess as people have mentioned, I should be checking battery percentage. I don't generally leave the car on when charging L1 though. It's slow enough as it is, haha.

Lothsahn said:

I agree with Nubo: expect around 4 miles per hour of charging, roughly speaking. But this is with the car plugged in and powered off. If you have the car on, that car itself will use 100-200W of power for computers, pumps, and accessories. Turn on the AC or heater and your power consumption can EASILY exceed the charging power, draining the battery or making a charge take forever.

L1 charging is very slow, but if you have the car off, it will work. I've had the car nearly a year, and all we have is L1 charging, and it works fine. We drive the car during the day and charge it overnight. It's always charged the next morning.

Note: L1 charging takes about 20-24 hours when the car is brand new. Since ours is degraded and only provides ~12kWh usable capacity, it charges "twice as fast" (12 hours from completely empty).

Click to expand...

Yes, I only powered the car on to check the readout on the LCD, but wouldn't leave it on to compete with the slow L1 charging. I realize how silly that would be, but it's bears repeating. Good to know that L1 has been sustainable for ya.

The 2018 LEAF S I have has the quick-charge option and had just over 9k miles when I bought it used, and it's mint. Considering that I could only buy used right now (rebuilding credit), I got a great deal. I need to get one of those little devices that lets me check SOC and SOH for the battery. Where does that plug-in, btw?

Thank ya!

Spacep0d said:

I need to get one of those little devices that lets me check SOC and SOH for the battery. Where does that plug-in, btw?

Click to expand...

The socket is under the dash, about 2" farther outboard than being right under the steering column, with its long axis parallel to the long axis of the car.

Levenkay said:

Spacep0d said:

I need to get one of those little devices that lets me check SOC and SOH for the battery. Where does that plug-in, btw?

Click to expand...

The socket is under the dash, about 2" farther outboard than being right under the steering column, with its long axis parallel to the long axis of the car.

Click to expand...

Be very careful with that port! It's pretty fragile. If you plan on using it often, you can get an extender cord with a right angle plug and the same port on the end that puts the extended port in a better location. You can leave the extender cord plugged in, but NOT the port reader.

Oilpan4 said:

I went from 1.4kw to 2.9kw when I modded my original leaf evse to run 240v, then I bought the duosida evse which gave me 3.8kw then stepped up to a 7.2kw home chademo.

Click to expand...

Oilpan4;

Interested in your "home" chademo - what did you actually purchase? I've considered the Setec unit, but worried about lack of technical data and/or support.

...and your model year...

I got a used 10kw setec unit. On a 380v leaf pack it does around 7.2kw.
I got mine used for $1200.
New they are more like $3500.

If you have on board 6.6kw charging it doesn't make any sense to get the setec unit.
Since the fastest it will charge is about 8kw right before it starts to taper off.

LeftieBiker said:

Levenkay said:

Spacep0d said:

I need to get one of those little devices that lets me check SOC and SOH for the battery. Where does that plug-in, btw?

Click to expand...

The socket is under the dash, about 2" farther outboard than being right under the steering column, with its long axis parallel to the long axis of the car.

Click to expand...

Be very careful with that port! It's pretty fragile. If you plan on using it often, you can get an extender cord with a right angle plug and the same port on the end that puts the extended port in a better location. You can leave the extender cord plugged in, but NOT the port reader.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice! I don't know what the 'extender cord' is or how it works. I've seen the OBD2 device. The one I have saved in my list is this;
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0755N61PW/?coliid=I3VJN8YXFJA9X7&colid=38D0EIJNFFCQH&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

Are there other accessories I should add with this order? Should I get a different OBD2 unit?

I have a 2018 LEAF S. I didn't see a place in the control panel to add the car.

Oilpan4 said:

I got a used 10kw setec unit. On a 380v leaf pack it does around 7.2kw.
I got mine used for $1200.
New they are more like $3500.

If you have on board 6.6kw charging it doesn't make any sense to get the setec unit.
Since the fastest it will charge is about 8kw right before it starts to taper off.

Click to expand...

Ahhhh, thanks for the info!