mdleaf
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:34 am
Delivery Date: 01 Sep 2018

has your Leaf's PTC heater failed? reply here

Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:39 am

Hi all,

I am looking to gather a list of customers affected by premature PTC heater failures in their Leaf.

I have anecdotal evidence that many Nissan Leaf customers have had their PTC heater fail under extreme cold conditions.

Faulted part number is: 27143-3NF1A

Expected Fault Codes:
```
B2773 0008 HVAC PTC Heater Circuit 1 HAC-75
B2774 0008 HVAC PTC Heater Circuit 2 HAC-75
```

If you have had this problem, please post here with as much detail as you would like.

Ideally include:
- year+model of leaf
- geographical location / area
- date purchased
- date of PTC heater fault and quoted cost to repair
- if you actually have paid for repair (or under warranty)
- any worth-mentioning extended warranty
- external refs/links
- etc

Thank you.

Also being tracked on reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/leaf/comments/ ... urce=share
Last edited by mdleaf on Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

EnigmaEV
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 9:52 am
Delivery Date: 31 Mar 2018
Leaf Number: 301349
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada

Re: has your Leaf's PTC heater failed? reply here

Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:10 pm

I had PTC heater failures in extreme cold on February 5th and 7th, 2019.

-2018 SL
-Saskatchewan, Canada
-purchased March 31st, 2018
-codes read and sent to Nissan engineers February 8th
-new PTC heater and wiring loom ordered February 14th (have not arrived yet)
-should be a warranty repair

Both failures happened after the car was parked outside for several hours in temperatures below -30C. The first time the battery was at 23% SOC and the second it was at 79%. I have driven in these temps many times this winter and the heater has worked perfectly before and since the failures so I'm not convinced it is a physical PTC "failure". To me it seems more like a software/battery management issue or, if the wiring loom was run without enough slack, it's possible the contraction in extreme cold could cause some issues.
2018 Leaf SL, 35,632 km, SOH - 93.66%, Hx - 117.29, AHr - 108.121

mdleaf
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:34 am
Delivery Date: 01 Sep 2018

Re: has your Leaf's PTC heater failed? reply here

Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:01 am

I have gathered a LOT of other evidence throughout online forums etc. Here are all of the instances/occurrences i could find in one place with a TLDR (as best I could gather)

----

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=21226
2011 Leaf
WHEN: Jan 2015
FIX:
RCA:
> The workshop has come back with the diagnose "defect PTC heater" and "defect DC/DC converter".
> DC/DC and onboard charger fall under the 5 year / 60,000 mile power train warranty.
> Heater falls under the 3 year / 36,000 mile bumper-to-bumper warranty.

----

viewtopic.php?t=21175
2012 Leaf
WHEN: Dec 2015
FIX: unknown
RCA:
> I suspect the dealer quoted a price to replace everything associated with the heater. There are several sensors, HVAC control module, coolant pump, power controller for heating elements, the heating elements themselves, motor-operated air flow dampers, and associated wiring harnesses. Loose wiring connections or failure of any component would lead to loss of heating. The actual cost of repair depends upon what actually failed. I suggest you question how the dealer determined the repair cost and ask what actually failed before you authorize repairs.
> Yes, keep in mind that dealerships usually (not always) follow the following repair procedure: start replacing modules associated with the failed system until it starts working properly again. Some try to save time by just replacing the whole system. I was once quoted $3k for a transmission replacement, when what the car needed was a $300 (parts and labor, total) external solenoid.
> I have a 2013 leaf with 30k miles on it. My heater just quit working about a week ago I got it to the dealer and they told me it would cost $2033 to replace the PTC Heater and reprogram the VDC. The part cost $850 and the rest is labor. I have been looking for a video or a tutorial that would show steps to replace it.

----

https://www.reddit.com/r/leaf/comments/ ... d_no_heat/
2015 Leaf
WHEN: Feb 2015
FIX:
RCA:
> no useful resolutions

----

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=24086
2013 Leaf SV
FIX: unknown
WHEN: 2017, June
RCA: ?
> no useful information

----

https://www.truedelta.com/Nissan-LEAF/p ... tories-968
Leaf (?)
WHEN: Mar 2014
FIX: temperature sensor replaced (AND PTC and PDM grrr)
RCA: temp sensor
> 38710 km Heater was no working. I took it in and they thought it was the PTC element. Took two weeks to get part and it was not it. Next ordered PDM module, took two weeks and was not it either. Found it was temp sensor. Replaced and all fixed.

----

https://www.truedelta.com/Nissan-LEAF/p ... tories-968
2013 Leaf
WHEN: Nov 2013
FIX: wiring harness replaced
RCA: wiring harndess
> Heater stopped functioning. Dealer replaced wiring harness under warranty.

----

https://www.truedelta.com/Nissan-LEAF/p ... tories-968
? Leaf
WHEN: Apr 2014
RCA: unknown
FIX: replace/repair?
> Resistance heater failed, common problem. Part was on back order so repair was delayed.
> Block heater broke down. Known problem with early 2013 LEAF. Complete replacement. Sulfated battery

----

viewtopic.php?t=20251
2013 Leaf SL
FIX: replaced heater
WHEN: 2016, Oct
RCA: unknown

----

https://www.speakev.com/threads/ptc-hea ... -2014.1440
2014 Tekna (UK version of Leaf)
FIX: done (unknown what was done)
WHEN: 2014, Nov
> Service department said they didn't think it would take that long
(presumably they had parts or it was fixable?)

----

https://www.speakev.com/threads/ptc-hea ... ost-402511
2013 Tekna
FIX:
WHEN: 2017, Jan
RCA: suspect temp sensor or wiring
> quite a known fault on the forums of either a) temperature sensor thinking PTC is over hear or b) PTC heater/wiring at fault.
> Interestingly it came on when the car got really cold on a night temps dropped to -5.. but next day it was at fault again.

----

viewtopic.php?t=19082
2013 Leaf
FIX:
WHEN: 2015, Feb
RCA:
> PTC heater High voltage harness or connectors (PTC heater high voltage circuit is open or shorted)

----

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=14780&start=80
2013 Leaf
WHEN: 2013, Jul
FIX
RCA
> There were less than 150 MY13 LEAFs delivered to Quebec, and four or five people from there have posted about having dead heaters. Considering not every owner frequents EV forums, I wonder what the actual failure rate is.
> My dealer here in Montreal has only sold 4 or 5 2013's and is doing the 3rd heater assembly.
> I have a 2011 that is a six months out of out of warranty and the PTC went out. Has anyone been able to get there's fixed after warranty due to the service bulletin? NTB14001 Seems like a known issue that should be taken care of. I'm talking to the Nissan folks about it, but was wondering if anyone has gone down this path post-warranty.


----

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=14780&start=70#p351615
? Leaf
FIX: replace temp sensor
RCA: water temp sensor on heat pump
> so the PTC heating element was not it, then they decided to change the Power Distribution Module (PDM) and that was not it, so then they decided to change out the water temperature sensor and that was it. The car thought the water was always at 190F, so the element stayed off and it thought it was heating the car

----

viewtopic.php?t=25272
2013 Leaf SV
FIX: cleanup fliud leak
WHEN: 2018, Feb
RCA: system to be leaking refrigerant due to bad O-ring
>

----

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=21175&sid=4df8a9cb ... 8&start=10
2012 Leaf SL
HACK FIX: (non-standard PTC elements)
WHEN: 2014, December
RCA: unknown
> We just fixed our with a bypass, took photos but this forum has no easy way to just attach them.
Basically we picked up 2 20$ PTC heater elements off eBay 200 watts each and pulled power off the driver side panel fuse box which has an open high power lug we tapped with a 30@ fuse and ran 10 gauge zipcord under the dash up through the defroster vents to the PTC heaters placed center over each defroster vent.
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Hw1Ka ... TyfUSFqlI5

----

https://forums.automobile-propre.com/to ... ment-27080
? Leaf
FIX: replace PTC heater
WHEN: 2015, Feb
RCA: unknown
> Diag. at Nissan today: the resistance is well HS, they order one (new reference, therefore evolution of the part), replacement scheduled mid-February (5h MO),

----

https://www.justanswer.com/nissan/c2kvp ... -heat.html
2013 Leaf
FIX: unknown
WHEN: 2019, Feb
RCA: unknown
> research on the S model and the PTC element.We have a bulletin out: NTB14-001b for insufficient heating that recommends replacing the PTC heater and reprogramming the VCM.
> It’s a technical service bulletin to address certain issues that may be common or misdiagnosed

Daklein
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:58 pm
Delivery Date: 02 Sep 2019
Leaf Number: 335449
Location: Hartland, MI

Re: has your Leaf's PTC heater failed? reply here

Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:18 pm

I suspect mine has failed. 2014 S, about 25000miles.

I just took the car over from my Dad in upstate NY, and drove it here to Michigan. He complained in the past about the heat being poor or not working, but I'm not sure if it ever worked or failed at some time in the past, or if the dealer did anything beyond explain that's just how it works poorly.

On an overnight trip with cooler outside temperatures, and maybe relatively humid outside, about 55-60 deg F, I was having windshield fogging issues due to getting only cold air from the defrost vents. Had to keep the ac button off, except for short durations to defrost inside. Still windshield was cold enough that it was fogging outside a little. (using wipers to clear). Nothing I do can get anything warmer than outside air to any of the vents, temperature set to 90, any combination of heat/defrost/ac mode settings.

Inside the garage, I ran the AC a while to get the interior cold, while charging, then turned off the car, set the climate control timer to turn on in a few minutes later. The climate timer did start up with heat & defrost on, but noooo heat. Without pre-cooling the car interior, the climate time starts up in cooling mode, which activates the AC. At least that's my understanding from reading, and initial observation.

There are codes set, checking again now with LeafSpy. I'll read the service manual pages for these:
B2773 0008 HVAC PTC Heater Circuit 1 HAC-75
B2774 0008 HVAC PTC Heater Circuit 2 HAC-75

This is my first post here, I'm finding lots of great info, Thanks!! Still have some questions, if anyone has replaced their own PTC or have some more knowledge about it:

My 2014 S would have only the PTC, no heatpump? I haven't come across a list of what the HVAC hardware is for each model year.

What part of the PTC fails, the actual heater, or some part of the LIN controller that runs it?

I see in the service manual how to replace it, looks like they say to remove the whole HVAC unit, that seems nuts. Looks like it comes out from the drivers side of the HVAC module, from behind a grounded sheet metal shield with 'tamperproof' torx bolts , I see after taking off the center console and driver footwell plastic. Can it be taken out without removing the whole HVAC?
Are the PTCs the same across the various years?

Thanks
2014 Leaf S w/ 6.6kw charger & Chademo port, 24kWh ->=> 62kWh !! :o (working on it)

EnigmaEV
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 9:52 am
Delivery Date: 31 Mar 2018
Leaf Number: 301349
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada

Re: has your Leaf's PTC heater failed? reply here

Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:08 pm

My PTC heater failed last winter when it was -32 C. It started working again when it warmed up a bit the next day but failed once more on another extremely cold day. Apparently one of the wiring loom(s) (I believe there are 3) was run too tight. When it would shrink a bit in the extreme cold it would partially disconnect and shut the system down. The dealership changed all the looms and installed a new PTC heater under warranty. I can confirm they pulled out the entire dash and most of the interior. They ended up having the car for 5 days for the repair and an annual inspection. With the PTC heater working, there is no problem keeping the car warm, even below -30 C - other than the huge energy consumption and range loss. If you have LeafSpy you could check if there is any extra energy draw when the heater is running.
2018 Leaf SL, 35,632 km, SOH - 93.66%, Hx - 117.29, AHr - 108.121

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 13246
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: has your Leaf's PTC heater failed? reply here

Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:57 pm

My 2014 S would have only the PTC, no heatpump? I haven't come across a list of what the HVAC hardware is for each model year.

All of the Leaf S cars have the PTC heater only - no heat pump. As for what fails, I seem to recall one or more cases of fuses for the units failing, but don't remember if the failures ever turned out to be the fuse only, or if it was always a heater failure.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Daklein
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:58 pm
Delivery Date: 02 Sep 2019
Leaf Number: 335449
Location: Hartland, MI

Re: has your Leaf's PTC heater failed? reply here

Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:11 am

Daklein wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:18 pm
I suspect mine has failed. 2014 S, about 25000miles.

how to replace it, looks like they say to remove the whole HVAC unit, that seems nuts. Looks like it comes out from the PSG side of the HVAC module, from behind a grounded sheet metal shield with 'tamperproof' torx bolts , I see after taking off the center console and driver footwell plastic. Can it be taken out without removing the whole HVAC?
Well, I created a Leaf pile in the garage, working at getting to the PTC. Removed the whole IP/dash plastic as service manual says. Then the right passenger side of the HVAC module and the PTC slides out to the right. Wonderful!! EXcept!! Argh, it hits the mount for the glovebox, sticking down from the whole d@mned IP beam. Yeah, the service manual says to re-align that too, after removing/aligning the steering column from it. Wow this is nuts... I guess I have to do that to get it out & replace it.

On top of all that, I think I've made my Leaf pile even worse, now I have P311C, P3176 and not able to precharge and close contactors, not getting ready light.

The PTC slides out part way before hitting the IP beam glovebox mount. I removed the PTC control module from the PTC element, it pops off with clips on the the front/rear, leaving the PTC core still in it's slot in the HVAC module. I opened the cover on the PTC control, maybe there's a fuse? All looks fine inside, all good clear dielectric goo, and put back together. I did find moisture inside the PTC HV connector to the battery, maybe that's the original issue setting codes with the PTC? But if that was the issue, there should have been codes for the HV bus isolation. Dried that out, put back together. The resistance of the PTC heater, measured from the HV battery end of the PTC harness is 565 kOhm. Sound right? Not sure how, but the PTC must have blown the precharge resistor when I turned it back on. Or did I not wait 10 minutes after pulling the service plug, and the charged caps in the inverter discharged and blew something?

Currently, I removed the PTC HV wires from the connector to the battery, leaving just the HV interlock in the plug, and taped over the end so no mice get their fingers burned. Next I need to check if anything else is wrong with HV bus (AC compressor, PDM, traction inverter), before taking the pack out, Argh...

What'd I get into with this, Brenthasty's 12v PTCs on the dash look appealing now. ;)
2014 Leaf S w/ 6.6kw charger & Chademo port, 24kWh ->=> 62kWh !! :o (working on it)

Daklein
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:58 pm
Delivery Date: 02 Sep 2019
Leaf Number: 335449
Location: Hartland, MI

Re: has your Leaf's PTC heater failed? reply here

Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:56 am

Daklein wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:11 am
the PTC must have blown the precharge resistor when I turned it back on. Or did I not wait 10 minutes after pulling the service plug, and the charged caps in the inverter discharged and blew something?
It did blow the precharge resistor. I removed the pack and replaced it, now back to ready light, running and driving, and no heat/defrost as before.

I won't be plugging that particular PTC heater again: I took the cable out of the HV plug to the battery, leaving the interlock loop, and epoxied the tail of the plug shut, until I get a new heater.

I also confirmed how fast the HV bus discharges at powerdown, about 5 seconds to get to ~safe voltage ~36 volts. So there's no way waiting 10 minutes had anything to do with it.

Anyone have a used (working...?) PTC heater to sell? Anyone have a working one to verify what is the normal resistance across the HV input terminals: is it essentially open circuit, or does it show something like 500 kOhms?
2014 Leaf S w/ 6.6kw charger & Chademo port, 24kWh ->=> 62kWh !! :o (working on it)

danowpg
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 4:24 pm
Delivery Date: 03 May 2015
Leaf Number: 024077

Re: has your Leaf's PTC heater failed? reply here

Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:59 pm

mdleaf wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:39 am
Hi all,

I am looking to gather a list of customers affected by premature PTC heater failures in their Leaf.
I'll add mine to the list.

2013 Nissan Leaf SL, originally a US Leaf.

Failed sometime in November, 2018 at around 51,000km (~31,700miles) also in Winnipeg, MB, Canada as someone on your Reddit thread indicated as well. Dealership said B2773 and B2774 codes and NTB14-001C required PTC Heater and VCM reprogram.

Quoted $2847 plus taxes ($427) or about $3274 Canadian (~$2472 USD) to fix. I did not get it fixed. They said that was for replacement of PTC heater unit / evac/recharge a/c for PTC, 6.0hours labour, part 2006.17.

Kev994
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:00 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Sep 2019
Leaf Number: 309727

Re: has your Leaf's PTC heater failed? reply here

Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:50 am

danowpg wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:59 pm
Quoted $2847 plus taxes ($427) or about $3274 Canadian (~$2472 USD) to fix. I did not get it fixed. They said that was for replacement of PTC heater unit / evac/recharge a/c for PTC, 6.0hours labour, part 2006.17.
Which dealer? How did you get through the winter without a heater?
2016 SL Coulis Red

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