danowpg
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 4:24 pm
Delivery Date: 03 May 2015
Leaf Number: 024077

Re: has your Leaf's PTC heater failed? reply here

Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:44 am

Kev994 wrote: โ†‘
Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:50 am
danowpg wrote: โ†‘
Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:59 pm
Quoted $2847 plus taxes ($427) or about $3274 Canadian (~$2472 USD) to fix. I did not get it fixed. They said that was for replacement of PTC heater unit / evac/recharge a/c for PTC, 6.0hours labour, part 2006.17.
Which dealer? How did you get through the winter without a heater?
It was through Vickar Nissan here in Winnipeg.

I bought a 12v plug in PTC heater and it was sketchy in our -35C. Seat heater and heated steering wheel helped. I simply don't have the money to pay it, and even if I did, that's engine replacement money for an ICE vehicle, so I'm kinda on principal not wanting to do it either. They should have designed it so that it could be replaced easier, IF that's the problem.

Hoping to find the sensor and wiring harness part #'s to try and have that checked first.

goldbrick
Posts: 609
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: has your Leaf's PTC heater failed? reply here

Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:52 am

There are folks who have installed auxiliary gas or diesel heaters in a Leaf. It would be a lot less $ than a replacement PTC heater and you would get a lot more heat. In Winnipeg it might make a lot of sense since you get tons of heat with no loss of range. Search around the forum and you will find the posts.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 13216
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: has your Leaf's PTC heater failed? reply here

Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:13 pm

goldbrick wrote: โ†‘
Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:52 am
There are folks who have installed auxiliary gas or diesel heaters in a Leaf. It would be a lot less $ than a replacement PTC heater and you would get a lot more heat. In Winnipeg it might make a lot of sense since you get tons of heat with no loss of range. Search around the forum and you will find the posts.

Here is one of those topics:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=26390&p=534837
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

danowpg
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 4:24 pm
Delivery Date: 03 May 2015
Leaf Number: 024077

Re: has your Leaf's PTC heater failed? reply here

Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:59 pm

I don't want to clutter the thread with too many posts, but based on some of the solutions, they suggested replacing the coolant temperature sensor and / or the wiring harness to the PTC heater. I'll update this post with some of the information I found, as I am going to try and solve this myself as well.

Coolant Temperature Sensor

They said the Nissan part number is #226303NA0A. You can typically buy parts here in Canada (and the US) from Rock Auto or on eBay. When I looked up 2013 Nissan Leaf, there were none in stock. These temperature sensors do not seem to be that unique. When searching eBay, sellers also indicated these part numbers:
J10 JJ10 B17 B10 S14 N15 K13 Z51 C11 B16 R51 L31 F15 N50 J11, T32 EZ0/1 L30 L70 BZ0 BJ0 JK0/1 BR0/1 CR0/1 HY B9A/M K9A/M, HR16DE QG16DE SR20DET SR20DE HR12DDR YD25DDTi MR18DE MR20DE, VQ40DE VK56DE VQ35DE MR16DDT MR20DD M4R 711 M4R 713 K4M 838, M4R 714 M4R 751 H4M 729 M4R 746 2ZV 604 K4M 866 K4M 858 V4Y 701, V4Y 711 V4Y 715 M4R 700 M4R 701 2TR 702 2TR 700 2TR 703 M5M 450, M5M 400 H4M 438 H4M 738 H4M 430 H4M 730 H4M 740 BLUE PRINT, ADN17204 ADN17205 BOSCH 0280130071 0280130072 0280130081, 0280130082 CALORSTAT BY VERNET WS3001 DACIA 2263044B20, 2345012920 DAIHATSU 226300M200 DELPHI TS1024812B1 EBERSPACHER, 9003703 ERA 330759 FACET 73225 HELLA 6PT009107531, HERTH+BUSS ELPARTS J5621011 HONGQI INFINITI A178352A, 226301W400 2263043Y00 2263044B10 2263071L00 226307Y000, 2263095F0B 2263099B10 22630ED000 22630JN00A JAGUAR METZGER, 0905129 NISSAN 2263000QAH 2263001U00 226303NA0A 2263044B00, 2263099B00 22630D9702 RENAULT RENAULT TRUCKS SAMSUNG VEMO, V38720004
Searching for Nissan's 226301W400 / 2263000QAH / 2263099B00 seemed to come up with the same "FACET 73225" also listed above. Price as of 2019/10/01 is $13 Canadian.

Here's a local thread on how to replace it:
viewtopic.php?t=25000

After receiving the new part, it looks like the probe is slightly larger than the OEM one, but the Facet 73225 fits perfectly. It comes with a metal washer instead of the rubber one, so I believe it's important to swap to keep the rubber one. After replacing it, turning on the heat to max and fan to max doesn't seem to engage the PTC heater on mine. On to the next option...

Heater Harness

These may or may not be the right harness for the heater. Keeping them here as a record of what I found at NissanPartsDeal.com :

Harness-Sub, Blower Unit
27020Y Nissan Leaf S 27206-3NF0A (Listed at $26 USD as of 2019/10/01)
27020Y Nissan Leaf SL/SV 27206-3NF2A (Listed at $26 USD as of 2019/10/01)
27020YA Nissan Leaf Harness-Sub, Blower Unit 27206-3NF1A (Listed at $20 USD as of 2019/10/01)

Heater Assy-PTC
27143N 27143-3NF1A Replaced by: 27143-3NF1B (Listed at $600 USD as of 2019/10/01).
Last edited by danowpg on Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Daklein
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:58 pm
Delivery Date: 02 Sep 2019
Leaf Number: 335449
Location: Hartland, MI

Re: has your Leaf's PTC heater failed? reply here

Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:57 pm

Careful to specify which model years are being discussed:

11-12 have a high voltage coolant heater underhood with a temperature sensor that can be an issue and a traditional sort of heater core in the HVAC unit.

13 and up have a direct air high voltage PTC heater in the hvac unit.

I just got my 14 working again ๐Ÿ˜, with a new PTC heater I pulled from a salvage 13 for $50. It was a roll of the dice, but it worked. The 13 was the older part number, but looked like it had been replaced under warranty, because the grounding shield over the end of the heater did not match the rest of the shielding.

Goofing around trying to repair or figure out what was wrong with the original one cost me the trouble of blowing and fixing the precharge resistor, twice. ๐Ÿ™„.

But I learned a couple of things that I should have known in hindsight:
1) use an original leaf precharge resistor (thunderstruck ev have some), not just any 30 ohm 40+ watt per resistor. This cost a $300 tow home. ๐Ÿ˜’
2) consider humidity when resealing a pack, lithium batteries don't like water. After reopening the pack, there was some condensation collected around the lip inside the seal. Its pretty humid now, so I'll make a plastic tent in the garage with a dehumidifier, and I'll put some dessicant in for extra low moisture. I imagine packs are originally sealed in an air conditioned environment, I'm not sure if the service manual mentions anything about this?

So, about $350 and days of my time, similar to prices I got for having an untested salvage part pulled and shipped. Still better than $600 for a new one.
2014 Leaf S w/ 6.6kw charger & Chademo port, 24kWh ->=> 62kWh !! :o (working on it)

danowpg
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 4:24 pm
Delivery Date: 03 May 2015
Leaf Number: 024077

Re: has your Leaf's PTC heater failed? reply here

Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:39 am

Daklein wrote: โ†‘
Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:57 pm
13 and up have a direct air high voltage PTC heater in the hvac unit.
13 SV and SL have a hybrid heating system, while the S I believe is solely the PTC. From what I'm understanding from some of the posts, putting in a new PTC heater didn't necessarily fix the problem. It could be that the coolant temperature sensor is faulty and the switch between the two heating systems isn't happening.

Putting on my tin-foil hat, I'm going to guess that the computer reprogram they want to do when replacing the PTC heater might remove the dependency of the hybrid system from that sensor, assuming what I've read from other people is correct. Totally out on a limb here.

Daklein
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:58 pm
Delivery Date: 02 Sep 2019
Leaf Number: 335449
Location: Hartland, MI

Re: has your Leaf's PTC heater failed? reply here

Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:51 pm

Daklein wrote: โ†‘
Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:56 am
Anyone have a working one to verify what is the normal resistance across the HV input terminals: is it essentially open circuit, or does it show something like 500 kOhms?
The working salvage heater I got was about 5 MegOhms resistance across the Hv input terminals.
2014 Leaf S w/ 6.6kw charger & Chademo port, 24kWh ->=> 62kWh !! :o (working on it)

mdleaf
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:34 am
Delivery Date: 01 Sep 2018

Re: has your Leaf's PTC heater failed? reply here

Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:33 pm

Wow everyone there have been a lot of amazing replies of late with superb detail! Some of you clearly are comfortable self-repairing, really cool to read your experiments and progress! I have a mechanic brother-in-law would could certainly help me if we had a more reasonable diagnostic & root cause path.


Minor Questions:

1. Does anyone know if the resistor, wiring loom, or temp sensor are part of a "PTC replacement" (NTB14-001c) sequence a dealer would do? (if some are, thinking perhaps this might help to explain why some users report varying root causes that fix the issue, coupled probably with dealer miscommunication ...) -- for those of you comfortable and have it apart now or in the future, pictures & labels would be greatly appreciated!

2. The consideration of the computer reprogram removing the dependency is a curious thought, ^o^ ... it isn't outside the realm of possibility. If this were true though, I would have thought Nissan would issue it as a service campaign to prevent future failures.

The Big Two Questions:

A) Does anyone know or have access to Nissan R&D? - in all I've read, and in my own dealer experience with 3 different dealers Southern Ontario, it is my opinion that they are insufficiently trained to efficiency resolve this problem without expensing the consumer >$2k. Most recently they tried to tell me that my 2015 SV doesn't have a heat pump! ;/ only the PTC heater ... I really think we need to engage Nissan R&D and bypass the dealerships.

B) In Canada and USA we have transport safety authorities. In my opinion, the PTC heater failure is a SAFETY issue as without it, the ability to defog windows is drastically reduced. Plus in Canada, extreme cold without heat is unsafe in of itself. Should we pursue these authorities under these grounds? I have no experience in this area.


---
A request:
PLEASE if you have not already, contact Nissan Canada or Nissan USA, and your dealership. We all need to complain about this issue so that Nissan gives it attention. (in my discussions with Nissan Canada and dealerships, this is exactly how it works, if there are enough failures, it triggers Nissan R&D/warranty to investigate)

mdleaf
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:34 am
Delivery Date: 01 Sep 2018

Re: has your Leaf's PTC heater failed? reply here

Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:37 pm

danowpg wrote: โ†‘
Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:59 pm

Heater Assy-PTC
27143N 27143-3NF1A Replaced by: 27143-3NF1B (Listed at $600 USD as of 2019/10/01).
This is the PTC assembly unit I was going to purchase from US, and ship to Canada.
https://www.partsfornissans.com/oem-par ... 271433nf1b

(however I am wary to spend ~$1k CAD if we're not sure it will fix it!)

danowpg
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 4:24 pm
Delivery Date: 03 May 2015
Leaf Number: 024077

Re: has your Leaf's PTC heater failed? reply here

Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:27 pm

mdleaf wrote: โ†‘
Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:33 pm
2. The consideration of the computer reprogram removing the dependency is a curious thought, ^o^ ... it isn't outside the realm of possibility. If this were true though, I would have thought Nissan would issue it as a service campaign to prevent future failures.
Yeah, was a tin foil hat moment. But I wouldn't put it past the company to look at it in dollars and cents: Most people using them aren't in cold climates, and only on the SV/SL so it's not like its 'affecting' most people. Admitting there was a fault by creating a service campaign could open a huge liability hole for those who had already had the $3,000 service to fix the PTC heater. I don't think Nissan has a track record of being that proactive - they're already losing money on the Leaf.

mdleaf wrote: โ†‘
Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:33 pm
B) In Canada and USA we have transport safety authorities. In my opinion, the PTC heater failure is a SAFETY issue as without it, the ability to defog windows is drastically reduced. Plus in Canada, extreme cold without heat is unsafe in of itself. Should we pursue these authorities under these grounds? I have no experience in this area.
I don't know if something similar to this exists in the USA, but here's an informative article on the USA:
https://jalopnik.com/heres-how-to-possi ... 1830938474

Edit: Using the "Defect Petition" language, I found a Transport Canada website that might do just that:
https://www.tc.gc.ca/en/services/road/d ... efect.html

mdleaf wrote: โ†‘
Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:37 pm
I am wary to spend ~$1k CAD if we're not sure it will fix it!
That has been why I have been procrastinating as well.

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