TedStryker
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Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:40 pm
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Re: Flashers for 2 Hrs Kills 12V Battery

Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:36 pm

I just bought the Costco Interstate battery (51R). It's not an AGM, but it's $76.99 with a 42-month replacement warranty.

I considered an AGM battery, but I couldn't justify the additional cost. Why would I spend 2+ times the money on a battery that only has 6 months of additional warranty? (Referencing the Exide / Bosch AGM battery sited above.) What is the benefit that I am missing?

LeftieBiker
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Re: Flashers for 2 Hrs Kills 12V Battery

Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:26 pm

TedStryker wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:36 pm
I just bought the Costco Interstate battery (51R). It's not an AGM, but it's $76.99 with a 42-month replacement warranty.

I considered an AGM battery, but I couldn't justify the additional cost. Why would I spend 2+ times the money on a battery that only has 6 months of additional warranty? (Referencing the Exide / Bosch AGM battery sited above.) What is the benefit that I am missing?
If you prefer the battery lasting for many years, an AGM type tolerates deeper discharges better. If you are ok with warranty replacement, and don't use accessory mode, then the cheaper battery is a better deal for you.
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gncndad
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Re: Flashers for 2 Hrs Kills 12V Battery

Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:03 pm

PianoAl wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:07 pm
gncndad wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:07 pm
PianoAl: If you would kindly post your region, someone near you might know of a better deal. :)
I live in Big Lagoon, CA, thirty minutes north of Eureka and sixty minutes south of the Home Depot in Crescent City.
I wasn't clear. if you put it in your signature, then we have a reference point for every post you make. It really is helpful.
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Nubo
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Re: Flashers for 2 Hrs Kills 12V Battery

Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:33 pm

TedStryker wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:36 pm
I just bought the Costco Interstate battery (51R). It's not an AGM, but it's $76.99 with a 42-month replacement warranty.

I considered an AGM battery, but I couldn't justify the additional cost. Why would I spend 2+ times the money on a battery that only has 6 months of additional warranty? (Referencing the Exide / Bosch AGM battery sited above.) What is the benefit that I am missing?
I fell in love with AGM with my 1991 Miata. I initially had misgivings about the tiny battery it used. Over time I was amazed at its power and longevity and it was the first car I ever had where there was just ZERO battery corrosion and no acidic schmutz to clean and mitigate. A good thing when the battery is stored in the trunk. (Also a good thing when under-hood is crammed with electronics.)

For newer cars, they're a good choice because they will tolerate deeper discharge; a good feature when cars are always "on" to some degree. Is it necessary? Absolutely not. But I think it's good insurance, especially in an EV that gives little adavance warning of battery weakness, then goes haywire when the voltage gets too low.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

TedStryker
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Re: Flashers for 2 Hrs Kills 12V Battery

Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:24 am

Nubo wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:33 pm
I fell in love with AGM with my 1991 Miata. I initially had misgivings about the tiny battery it used. Over time I was amazed at its power and longevity and it was the first car I ever had where there was just ZERO battery corrosion and no acidic schmutz to clean and mitigate. A good thing when the battery is stored in the trunk. (Also a good thing when under-hood is crammed with electronics.)

For newer cars, they're a good choice because they will tolerate deeper discharge; a good feature when cars are always "on" to some degree. Is it necessary? Absolutely not. But I think it's good insurance, especially in an EV that gives little adavance warning of battery weakness, then goes haywire when the voltage gets too low.
LeftieBiker wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:26 pm
If you prefer the battery lasting for many years, an AGM type tolerates deeper discharges better. If you are ok with warranty replacement, and don't use accessory mode, then the cheaper battery is a better deal for you.
I do appreciate the explanations. There are some good considerations here - especially about the EV giving you little advance warning of a failing 12v battery. (A bit ironic, really.) And I will say, the dirtiest thing under the hood of my Leaf was a little bit of sulfation on the battery.

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Nubo
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Re: Flashers for 2 Hrs Kills 12V Battery

Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:22 pm

TedStryker wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:24 am
Nubo wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:33 pm
...I do appreciate the explanations. There are some good considerations here - especially about the EV giving you little advance warning of a failing 12v battery. (A bit ironic, really.) ...
Definitely ironic on a high-tech vehicle. Electronic battery-testers can be had cheaply. For a very small cost the vehicle could be designed do its own self-check and give plenty of advance warning of a weakening 12V battery.

Even Teslas fall prey to this problem. It was rampant with the Model S and notably, part of their solution was switching to AGM batteries. ;)
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

goldbrick
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Re: Flashers for 2 Hrs Kills 12V Battery

Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:30 pm

Since the (12V) battery voltage is displayed by LeafSpy the electronics to measure the value are already in place. All that would be required is to update the firmware to allow the value to be displayed on the dash. Seems like a no-brainer.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Flashers for 2 Hrs Kills 12V Battery

Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:25 pm

goldbrick wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:30 pm
Since the (12V) battery voltage is displayed by LeafSpy the electronics to measure the value are already in place. All that would be required is to update the firmware to allow the value to be displayed on the dash. Seems like a no-brainer.
It wouldn't work, for the same reason that using LeafSpy to test the 12 volt voltage "manually" doesn't work: when the car is on, the DC-DC converter is on, and that raises the voltage to well above whatever the rest voltage is for the accessory battery.
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2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
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PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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Nubo
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Re: Flashers for 2 Hrs Kills 12V Battery

Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:15 pm

goldbrick wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:30 pm
Since the (12V) battery voltage is displayed by LeafSpy the electronics to measure the value are already in place. All that would be required is to update the firmware to allow the value to be displayed on the dash. Seems like a no-brainer.
What I meant was, the car could do a quick assessment of the battery condition, not just resting voltage. A weak battery can still give a nominally good voltage but then sag deeply when load is applied.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

goldbrick
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Re: Flashers for 2 Hrs Kills 12V Battery

Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:42 pm

^^Both good points but I still claim the required electronics are all there and only firmware changes would be required.

For example, disconnect the 12V battery from the DC-DC converter for some period of time and apply a load to it and measure the voltage or voltage drop or something similar. Finding a sufficient load to use for this test might be an issue with the existing wiring but I can't imagine the electronics on a Leaf are not sensitive enough to detect a dead or dying 12V battery. I'm betting it just never occurred to Nissan product development that it would be a useful feature to have.

If nothing else, measure the 12V level while starting the car and watch the droop. If it gets close to the point where other electronics will no longer work correctly due to low 12V power display an intelligent trouble code to warn the owner before it stops working completely.

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