MikeinPA
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Weak cell #44 in 2013 Leaf--where in pack?

Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:15 am

Picked up a 7/2013 (manufacturing date) Leaf with 16 K miles to go with my other 2013 Leaf last Friday.

It's a two bar loser and Leaf Spy shows 75% SOH. Leaf Spy is also showing cell #44 is discharging faster than the rest of the pack; at VLBW #44 is about 100 mv below the next lowest cell, overall voltage spread ~200 mv. (I will edit this post to add an screen shot.) At 100% charge through about 50% charge, #44 is tracking pretty well with the rest of the pack.

Does anyone have a reference for where cell #44 is in this pack? I will probably try replacing #44 if it doesn't give a P33E6 fault some time over the next 18 months. Dropping the pack doesn't look difficult, prying the lid off does, and depending on where #44 is it could be easy or really difficult to change.

Alternatively, has anyone paid the Nissan dealership to replace cell (rather than have it done under the 8 year hardware warranty)?

So currently I am limited to about 12 kwh of capacity. It is cold here and the pack has only been cycled 4 times so far since I got it and I believe it was parked for a while before that. See if it improves. Pack is showing three temp bars, but I can still get 4 regen bubbles at times. My commute is just 6 miles each way. The 7/2013 is in very clean condition (looks new actually) and was kept in Tampa until recently. I think it must have been in a garage, no sun damage, no salt corrosion. Some white sand in wheel well though! For me, range is just not an issue, but maintainability is, so this completely un-corroded car is a happy find for me.
2013 Pearl White SV man 09/13 58k ser no 418089 purchased new 12/13
2013 Ocean Blue SV man 07/13 18k ser no 413361 purchased used 12/19

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Dala
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Re: Weak cell #44 in 2013 Leaf--where in pack?

Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:13 am

Cell #44 should be in module 22

Image

cwerdna
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Re: Weak cell #44 in 2013 Leaf--where in pack?

Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:28 pm

You really should get it done for free under warranty instead of opening the pack yourself and potentially causing new problems. There no way in hell I'd be DIY while still under the 8 year/100K battery defects warranty.

Google for site:mynissanleaf.com cvli. There have been a few cases where a bad module's been replaced. Example: viewtopic.php?t=21700.

'19 Bolt Premier
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Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

powersurge
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Re: Weak cell #44 in 2013 Leaf--where in pack?

Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:45 pm

+1

MikeinPA
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Re: Weak cell #44 in 2013 Leaf--where in pack?

Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:05 am

Dala, excellent. Earlier this week I reviewed you pack rebuild over at Japtoys, searching for info on cell locations.

I would love it if Nissan would fix the cell, but after reviewing threads here, I though they would only do that if the P33E6 fault appeared, which I have assumed means there would be an "engine" fault light. No faults yet on dashbaord; I have tried to read the DTC codes with LS Pro, but I think it is a) hanging during the read process or b) there are no fault codes. I was going to contact Turbo3 to see what I am doing wrong. Could be the dongle.

LS Pro did report #44 as "weak" cell once so far when below VLBW, pack has failed Nissan's test procedure. Is there consensus on whether Nissan would treat this as a warranty issue even without the P33E6?

Thanks in advance for any tips on how to get this fixed by Nissan.
Last edited by MikeinPA on Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
2013 Pearl White SV man 09/13 58k ser no 418089 purchased new 12/13
2013 Ocean Blue SV man 07/13 18k ser no 413361 purchased used 12/19

MikeinPA
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Re: Weak cell #44 in 2013 Leaf--where in pack?

Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:56 am

Update on this 2013 Leaf with bad cell #44. Car is in "limited power" mode most of the time, turtle on the dash. The first time I turtled it I had just gotten home and the dashboard indicated pack was near 5% and the bad cell was at around 3.3 V. At this time I also got the warning light (the car with the exclamation point through it). Warning light is permanent. I haven't been able to get Leaf Spy Pro to work with the dongle I have--using the lite version--so have not been able to access DTCs, but I am assuming the turtle and warning light are about the bad cell and not some other fault.

Funny, even with the steep hills locally, turtle is OK! Speed limits are mostly 30 mph, and it is very relaxing....

So this is now a battery warranty issue covered by the 8 year warranty. My new question is, when the dealer does the repair work, do they have to pay the costs, or are they reimbursed by Nissan for the work? TIA.
2013 Pearl White SV man 09/13 58k ser no 418089 purchased new 12/13
2013 Ocean Blue SV man 07/13 18k ser no 413361 purchased used 12/19

estomax
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Re: Weak cell #44 in 2013 Leaf--where in pack?

Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:20 am

Nissan will reimburse them the warranty work, fingers crossed that they refresh the whole pack instead of taking it apart!
2013 Leaf SL Premium
27k, 93% SoH 2/17 32k, 96% SoH 6/17
46k, 94% SoH 2/18 52k, 88% SoH 6/18
62k, 87% SoH 2/19 68k, 84% SoH 6/19
75k, 83% SoH 2/20

Lothsahn
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Re: Weak cell #44 in 2013 Leaf--where in pack?

Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:23 am

MikeinPA wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:56 am
Update on this 2013 Leaf with bad cell #44. Car is in "limited power" mode most of the time, turtle on the dash. The first time I turtled it I had just gotten home and the dashboard indicated pack was near 5% and the bad cell was at around 3.3 V. At this time I also got the warning light (the car with the exclamation point through it). Warning light is permanent. I haven't been able to get Leaf Spy Pro to work with the dongle I have--using the lite version--so have not been able to access DTCs, but I am assuming the turtle and warning light are about the bad cell and not some other fault.

Funny, even with the steep hills locally, turtle is OK! Speed limits are mostly 30 mph, and it is very relaxing....

So this is now a battery warranty issue covered by the 8 year warranty. My new question is, when the dealer does the repair work, do they have to pay the costs, or are they reimbursed by Nissan for the work? TIA.
At some point, the car is likely to discharge the weak cell enough to just cut off power, and leave you stranded. Just want you to know, since that could be inconvenient (or dangerous, if on the highway, etc).

Yes, this should be a warranty issue. Nissan reimburses them. Good luck! Some dealers are able to resolve these issues quickly and without fuss, others will try to say that it's not a warranty issue and generally are incompetent. Hopefully you get the former, rather than the latter. If you get a runaround, try another dealer.
2011 Silver SV, purchased 2018, lives in Missouri (previously in CA)
LeafSpy Pro + BAFX Products OBDII dongle
Battery swap 2019/04/24 (87% SOH, 12 bar)

nlspace
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Re: Weak cell #44 in 2013 Leaf--where in pack?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:00 am

MikeinPA wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:56 am
..with the exclamation point through it). Warning light is permanent. I haven't been able to get Leaf Spy Pro to work with the dongle I have--using the lite version--so have not been able to access DTCs, but I am assuming the turtle and warning light are about the bad cell and not some other fault.
Can you get a cell voltage reading of the max/min difference? How much lower is #44 than the average? Are there any other weak cells showing up that are sagging more than the rest. Does it still charge up to 12 bars full or does it stop sooner with less bars?

A weak or worn out cell generally has a dimished capacity, which looks like a voltage sag when under load, and appears as a higher voltage during chargging.

A defective or failed cell could appears as either a short or partial internal short, or as an open.

Whichever the case it's a nuisance to deal with, hopefully they will warrant the pack for you.

MikeinPA
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Re: Weak cell #44 in 2013 Leaf--where in pack?

Sat Apr 25, 2020 8:45 am

Good point nlspace, I should document what it is doing and post here so there is a record of what voltages are causing the fault (if it is the weak cell and not another issue). I have been checking the weak cell with LS while driving (to make sure it isn't in worse condition), and the behavior under discharge is the same as 4 months ago. #44 drops faster than the rest, and the lowest cell is what the % charge reflects (the GOM cacthes up too, but its the GOM, who knows what it is thinking). I do not know why it decided to have turtles and also get the "check car" warning light--except it was very low one day, and I had time to put about 4 kwh into it, and this was the first time I saw the "check car" light.
2013 Pearl White SV man 09/13 58k ser no 418089 purchased new 12/13
2013 Ocean Blue SV man 07/13 18k ser no 413361 purchased used 12/19

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