goldbrick
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Re: Brake maintenance - How to avoid seized brakes

Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:10 pm

MikeinPA wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:30 pm
Speaking of brakes, is there a thread on MNL on brake fluid interval change vs water-cause brake system damage? I can see why Nissan wants frequent changes if there are a lot of high dollar parts with fluid in them, but what has been learned about actual damage from not doing yearly changes?
I don't know of a special thread but there have been mentions about this before and some folks have tested their brake fluid with some sort of chemical indicator strips. Bottom line, the brake fluid in a Nissan Leaf is hygroscopic (like most brake fluids) and will absorb water over time. LIke any car, water in the brake fluid can damage the steel brake parts internally and in extreme cases, the water can boil under hard braking causing loss of hydraulic pressure. Personally, I don't worry about the latter and I'm changing my brake fluid every 3 years to prevent the former. YMMV.

arnis
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Re: Brake maintenance - How to avoid seized brakes

Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:13 pm

I also keep an eye on brake fluids and I can tell that 3 years is definitely safe, even in hard climate with salt and snow and moist air.
Even 4 years is acceptable. But not much more. In addition to water there are other things dissolving into fluid.
Measuring expansion tank fluid doesn't tell the whole story. Fluid from caliper is in much worse state. Fluid doesn't circulate.
Rust on brake pad base plate guiding edges is important. This area must be greased by special lubricant designed for that area.
TRW makes one. Over-the-counter greases are no good. Also guiding pin boots will be swollen if incorrect chemical is used.

Maximum interval for brake "cleaning/greasing" for Leaf in not good winters is 2 years. It will definitely start to seize on third.

Those "springs" - well. They are not calibrated. You got from Walmart, uncle John gets from local barber. Eventually somebody
will make them out of stainless steel or any other tougher metal and it will eventually create a hazard.
Brake pads touching brake disc and creating few newtonmeters of drag is NORMAL and actually designed to be that way.
This process dries braking surface in rainy weather. 10-20W of heat per wheel is acceptable loss.


PS: Did you know that BMW has "dry" guiding pins. Service manual clearly states: clean pins and DO NOT GREASE.
I did grease my rear axle guiding pins (because I thought "who needs to read manual for such easy things") and it got worse
compared with front ones. So I removed grease and it went back normal. Interesting tech. It actually slides perfectly when clean.
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Brake maintenance - How to avoid seized brakes

Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:44 pm

Even 4 years is acceptable. But not much more. In addition to water there are other things dissolving into fluid.
Arnis and I agree on this. There is a very long thread on this, probably in another topic about something else. The conclusions drawn in the other topic about brake fluid changes every year?

*Yes!

*NO!!

* SHUT UP!!!
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Nubo
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Re: Brake maintenance - How to avoid seized brakes

Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:56 pm

MikeinPA wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:30 pm
...Speaking of brakes, is there a thread on MNL on brake fluid interval change vs water-cause brake system damage? I can see why Nissan wants frequent changes if there are a lot of high dollar parts with fluid in them, but what has been learned about actual damage from not doing yearly changes?
A flush every 2 years did sound excessive at first to my American ears, but european makes have been advocating this for some time. ABS braking systems aren't like the simpler braking systems in years past. ABS controllers are replaced as an assembly, with very large price tag. It's well worth a bit of preventive maintenance to keep the system pristine, imho. Your LEAF won't turn into a pumpkin on day 730, but 2 years seems like a reasonable schedule to shoot for. You can measure water and/or Copper on a regular basis, but heck if I'm going to go through all that trouble, flushing the system gives me brand-new fluid for not much more effort.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

goldbrick
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Re: Brake maintenance - How to avoid seized brakes

Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:54 pm

arnis wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:13 pm
Rust on brake pad base plate guiding edges is important. This area must be greased by special lubricant designed for that area.
TRW makes one. Over-the-counter greases are no good. Also guiding pin boots will be swollen if incorrect chemical is used.
This is another good point and I tend to forget it on my Leaf since it's new but on my ICE cars (average age = 15+ years) it is something I check and maintain every time I do the brakes on them. I haven't seen any stainless steel backing plates but I've used calipers that come with a stainless steel sheet metal insert that is used between the pads and the calipers. Here in Colorado, rust isn't a problem and a quick touch up with a file and an application of real brake grease is all I've ever used. If you're in a rust belt area though, I'm sure it would be a different story.

IMO, brakes on a EV are no different than brakes on an ICE car, except the pads/rotors last longer. All the other maintenance should still be kept up to date and since that is often done when the pads are replaced, it's something new to consider.

MikeinPA
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Re: Brake maintenance - How to avoid seized brakes

Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:56 am

goldbrick wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:54 pm

Here in Colorado, rust isn't a problem and a quick touch up with a file and an application of real brake grease is all I've ever used.
The only reason I have ever gotten rid of cars was rust. Around here "rust never sleeps". I am getting ready to put my white Leaf up on stands and start going after some rust I was quite surprised to see last fall when doing a rear bearing. First new car I ever bought, planning to keep it a while. Backstory, I was at a client's in fall of 2013, saw her's, she said "take it for a day", next thing I knew I was down at the dealership with a check. I had been wanting an electric vehicle for decades (even called the SoCal EV1 dealership to see if I could get one), somehow had missed the arrival of the Leaf. Love the car, hate rust.

I use the grease that comes in the little packets with disc brake pads. Sparingly.
2013 Pearl White SV man 09/13 58k ser no 418089 purchased new 12/13
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goldbrick
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Location: Boulder, CO

Re: Brake maintenance - How to avoid seized brakes

Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:59 am

I went to school at the U in Minnesota so I understand rust. And I understand you're opinion of the Leaf. I just towed a used one to my folks in NE Iowa. My dad just rode a few times in mine while visiting last year and called me up and asked if I could find him one. He's had it a month now and just loves it.

MikeinPA
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Re: Brake maintenance - How to avoid seized brakes

Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:06 pm

Nubo wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:56 pm

A flush every 2 years did sound excessive at first to my American ears, but european makes have been advocating this for some time. ABS braking systems aren't like the simpler braking systems in years past.
Well, I am at 36 month intervals on the white one, don't know the history of the blue one, carfax does not show flush. I have one of the power bleeders and will get caught up. Two year intervals is not much effort for decreasing $$$ repairs.
LeftieBiker wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:44 pm

*Yes!

*NO!!

* SHUT UP!!!
Experts often disagree.
2013 Pearl White SV man 09/13 58k ser no 418089 purchased new 12/13
2013 Ocean Blue SV man 07/13 18k ser no 413361 purchased used 12/19

Lothsahn
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Re: Brake maintenance - How to avoid seized brakes

Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:54 am

Had my 2011 Leaf for 2 years now. Checked the maintenance history, never been done, ever. Works perfectly--no issues at all.

I'll be taking it in for a brake flush.
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frontrangeleaf
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Location: Denver Area

Re: Brake maintenance - How to avoid seized brakes

Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:55 am

In our climate, I've been taking ours in for a full flush every 3 years.

Audi recommends every 2, but color me skeptical. I think that's them padding their service numbers.

Modern brake fluid is not as water hungry as it used to be.

-b
Empty-nesters - NW Denver-Boulder Area

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