lavaleaf
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:07 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Sep 2020
Leaf Number: 018409

2012 Leaf not charging; Lithium cell bad; 12 volt ok

Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:41 pm

Hello. I have a 2012 Leaf. The original battery was replaced with a refurbished battery in 2016; there was only a 1-year warranty. This week the EV Warning System light came on. I could start the car but it would not shift out of neutral. When I plugged it in to charge, it would not charge. The 12-volt battery tested a little low, so I replaced it with a new one. The car started and I was able to shift into Drive. Turned off the car to charge it but it would not charge, and the EV Warning System light came back on. I have LeafSpy, and I when I clear the error codes the car will start and shift into Drive, but when I try to charge it the warning code returns and the car won’t charge. I took the car to the dealer, who said there is a bad cell in the lithium battery. I was quoted $15,000 to replace the battery ($13,650 for the battery, plus labor and tax.) (NOTE: I live in Hawaii, so slightly higher prices are expected, but not that high. I am aware that as recently as June 2020 new lithium batteries were around $6,000 installed.) I called a different dealer, and was quoted around $11,000 ($9,600 for the battery, plus labor and tax.)

Paying that much is not possible for us. My questions are: Does anyone know if it is safe to drive the car with a bad cell? And if so, is there a way to charge the car? It seems that as soon as we plug it in, the diagnostic codes prevent the car from charging. Are there any other options I haven't thought of?

And input is welcome. Thank you.

cwerdna
Posts: 10989
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2012 Leaf not charging; Lithium cell bad; 12 volt ok

Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:19 pm

That is INSANE!

At those kind of prices, I'd dump the car and buy a used EV for cheap. Take a look at how much Bolts are: https://www.cars.com/for-sale/searchres ... 1&zc=95032. Given that you live in Hawaii, I'm not sure you'd even care if the car didn't have a DC fast charging inlet.

Let us know what the DTCs are. How much imbalance (in mV) are you seeing in Leaf Spy? Let us know the % SoC when you indicate the imbalance.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

lavaleaf
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:07 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Sep 2020
Leaf Number: 018409

Re: 2012 Leaf not charging; Lithium cell bad; 12 volt ok

Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:19 pm

Thank you for responding. I agree, insane. But it also does not make sense to trash an otherwise perfectly good car. If we have to clear codes each time we drive it, that's fine. But we can't do that without a way to charge it, or assurance that it's safe to do that.

I don't seem to have the ability to attach an image, so I will list DTC codes here:

P31E7 00C0 EV/HEV Restart Inhibition EVC-310
P0AA6 00CC EV/HEV Hybrid Batt Volt Sys Isolation EVC-157
B2722 0018 HVAC PTC Heater Voltage HAC-75
B2777 0018 HVAC PTC HTR LIN Comm HAC-84
B2779 0018 HVAC PTC HTR Comm HAC-84
B277A 0018 HVAC PTC HTR Connector HAC-86

I apologize that I can only describe the cell imbalance, taken at SOC=57.7%; 7 cells are just above 3.960, the rest are between 3.965 and 3.98, with most around 3.97.

The car is at the dealer's now, so I can't provide much more information. What I have here are screen shots we took before taking it to the dealer. Thanks again.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 15276
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2012 Leaf not charging; Lithium cell bad; 12 volt ok

Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:35 pm

That looks like an isolation fault, maybe a bad PTC heater, more than a bad cell.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 5155
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: 2012 Leaf not charging; Lithium cell bad; 12 volt ok

Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:41 pm

I agree -- not a bad cell.

Find a dealership who are not idiots
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

cwerdna
Posts: 10989
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2012 Leaf not charging; Lithium cell bad; 12 volt ok

Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:02 pm

lavaleaf wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:19 pm
Thank you for responding. I agree, insane. But it also does not make sense to trash an otherwise perfectly good car. If we have to clear codes each time we drive it, that's fine. But we can't do that without a way to charge it, or assurance that it's safe to do that.

I don't seem to have the ability to attach an image, so I will list DTC codes here:

P31E7 00C0 EV/HEV Restart Inhibition EVC-310
P0AA6 00CC EV/HEV Hybrid Batt Volt Sys Isolation EVC-157
B2722 0018 HVAC PTC Heater Voltage HAC-75
B2777 0018 HVAC PTC HTR LIN Comm HAC-84
B2779 0018 HVAC PTC HTR Comm HAC-84
B277A 0018 HVAC PTC HTR Connector HAC-86

I apologize that I can only describe the cell imbalance, taken at SOC=57.7%; 7 cells are just above 3.960, the rest are between 3.965 and 3.98, with most around 3.97.

The car is at the dealer's now, so I can't provide much more information. What I have here are screen shots we took before taking it to the dealer. Thanks again.
Yeah, sounds like the isolation fault and heater probs might be the issue. The heater does run off the high voltage bus.

Re: imbalance, if you have screenshots of the cells screen, it should at the bottom list min and max voltages. Also, in ( ) and also in the upper right in larger font, it'll show imbalance in mV. What are the min and max voltages along w/imbalance mV?

The key is even one is WAY off from the others, that'll cause a problem but I've not heard of charging problems, usually causes weird range collapse issues (e.g. turtle way too early or at pretty high SoC like 50+%) and shows up in Leaf Spy like https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic. ... 64#p457964.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 5155
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: 2012 Leaf not charging; Lithium cell bad; 12 volt ok

Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:15 pm

If this is a faulty PTC heater, can it simply be disconnected ? I presume it would not be missed in HI
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

cwerdna
Posts: 10989
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2012 Leaf not charging; Lithium cell bad; 12 volt ok

Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:21 pm

I recall reading a thread at https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattlenissanleaf where the well-known tech (Aaron) described one of his elaborate diagnosis and repair jobs. Might've been an isolation fault/shorting of some sort. I'm having trouble finding it. Was posted at least a year or two ago.

Here's a interesting one involving a '19 Leaf: https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattle ... 448622940/.

Here we go, https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattle ... 932788345/ might've been it. You'll need to view comments to see what Aaron wrote. That type of diagnosis would be impossible for a DIY mechanic at home w/o the service manual and probably w/o Nissan Consult III Plus. Here are some relevant comments:
This car had a high voltage "leak" that blew the fusible link portion of the H/V relay box. I do have the full assortment of insulated tools.
...
So the A/C compressor had a minor high voltage leak to ground. Unfortunately this also damaged the Traction motor inverter. The fix ended up being new A/C compressor, new inverter and a junction block.
...
Correct. Fuse blew and that leaves the system main relays unable to engage.
...
It was a long process. I feel bad for the customer. This car ended of being down for 45 days. The diag procedures provided to the techs need some rewriting. The inverter and one junction block where replaced first. As soon as I powered the car up after the initial repair the block blew again and threw all the original codes. The way the manual is written it does not show any correlation between the A/C compressor and inverter. It took a lot of book work,the better part of Nissans Leaf Task force and some insight by my DTS (District Tech Supervisor) to get this car back on the road again.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

lavaleaf
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:07 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Sep 2020
Leaf Number: 018409

Re: 2012 Leaf not charging; Lithium cell bad; 12 volt ok

Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:46 pm

cwerdna wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:02 pm
lavaleaf wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:19 pm
Thank you for responding. I agree, insane. But it also does not make sense to trash an otherwise perfectly good car. If we have to clear codes each time we drive it, that's fine. But we can't do that without a way to charge it, or assurance that it's safe to do that.

I don't seem to have the ability to attach an image, so I will list DTC codes here:

P31E7 00C0 EV/HEV Restart Inhibition EVC-310
P0AA6 00CC EV/HEV Hybrid Batt Volt Sys Isolation EVC-157
B2722 0018 HVAC PTC Heater Voltage HAC-75
B2777 0018 HVAC PTC HTR LIN Comm HAC-84
B2779 0018 HVAC PTC HTR Comm HAC-84
B277A 0018 HVAC PTC HTR Connector HAC-86

I apologize that I can only describe the cell imbalance, taken at SOC=57.7%; 7 cells are just above 3.960, the rest are between 3.965 and 3.98, with most around 3.97.

The car is at the dealer's now, so I can't provide much more information. What I have here are screen shots we took before taking it to the dealer. Thanks again.
Yeah, sounds like the isolation fault and heater probs might be the issue. The heater does run off the high voltage bus.

Re: imbalance, if you have screenshots of the cells screen, it should at the bottom list min and max voltages. Also, in ( ) and also in the upper right in larger font, it'll show imbalance in mV. What are the min and max voltages along w/imbalance mV?

The key is even one is WAY off from the others, that'll cause a problem but I've not heard of charging problems, usually causes weird range collapse issues (e.g. turtle way too early or at pretty high SoC like 50+%) and shows up in Leaf Spy like https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic. ... 64#p457964.
Thank you for these suggestions. The information you asked for is below. Would this have been enough for them to claim a faulty cell?:

Min/avg/max = 3.961 / 3.969 / 3.982 (21mV)

lavaleaf
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:07 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Sep 2020
Leaf Number: 018409

Re: 2012 Leaf not charging; Lithium cell bad; 12 volt ok

Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:56 pm

Thank you for all your responses. Until I receive a copy of the fault codes they generated, I will not know why they are claiming a bad cell. The rep did not say anything about a bad PTC heater. The diagnosis set us back $185, but we won't be dealing with them further, either for a repair or for a different car.

If it is indeed a leaky or faulty cell, it does not sound safe to drive, so I will let go of that idea. When I pick it up, I will ask about disconnecting the PTC heater.

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