Tire life / front tire wearing faster

Hello fellow leaf enthusiasts,

Firstly, this forum has been very kind and helpful and I did try to search through posts for a clear answers and didn't find one.

I have two main questions

1. new tire recommendation for my 2012 Nissan Leaf and is it common to have low tire life for the leaf possibly due to high starting torque . My forum search says there is a wide range in tire life.
2. My front tires are eroding faster. Is this typical? If so what's the ideal rotation recommendation. Per tire shop, rear needs to be thicker for hydroplaning safety and refuses to rotate. something doesn't add up.

More details on my tires.
Original tires replaced at 27k miles with Michelin defender warrantees for 90k miles.
At 45k miles on the car those tires are worn out with front at 3/32" and rear at 4-5/32" with less than 20k miles driven on them


As a side note, the America's tire guy said they would honor the warranty and recommended 'newer' Michelin defender tires based on their recommendation guide.
https://www.americastire.com/fitmentresult/tires?q=RECOMMENDATION_FILTER

I asked him , what the difference was with the newer models curious as to what the point was in installing the same tires if they don't last.
Here's the answer I got, hope it gives you a chuckle

"Michelin took all the problems with the older model and made them better with the newer model".

2012 Leaf SL , original owner at 45k
Lizzard battery replaced at 43k miles so near 100% SOH

What tire pressure do you run? Have you had an alignment check done?

The front tires have a rough life doing 3 different tasks:
Acceleration
Braking
Steering

If pressure is low or alignment off due to curb hits, etc., it will cause faster wear than normal.

Front tires wear faster than rears in any front-wheel-drive car.

In my and others' opinion, Nissan's recommended tire pressures are too low for LEAF and result in excessive tire wear, particularly on the outer tread. Search forum for more details.

The type of roads you drive is a factor. Twistier, hillier, or rougher will all contribute to faster tire wear.

Starting torque can certainly be a factor but that is entirely under your control. Gentler acceleration of course reduces tire wear.

It is indeed common for businesses to refuse to rotate more highly-worn tires to the rear if the tread-difference is over 1/16. The reasoning being it is more dangerous for the rear tires to lose traction. Of course FWD makes the matter problematic since the fronts are the ones wearing faster. The antidote is rotating frequently enough to keep the tires within 1/16.

The michelin energy savers we have on our 2019 SV Plus work well in most weather.

Thanks for the replies.

We drive fairly easy. No fast accelerations except when needed on a freeway on-ramp. Most of our miles are in-town with some freeway driving, no major twisty hilly roads, no unpaved roads, no curb hits that I know of. Tire pressures have been usually at factory recommended although I see that some are recommending over-inflating but I am worried about braking traction. I haven't had any brake service in 45k miles either so I am due for that (any tips here too will be welcome). I think tire alignment seems fine although hasn't been checked - car travels straight and tires are fairly even.

Its just that we moved to a small town + with COVID WAH, in the last 3 years, car has only racked up 10k miles, so I am thinking tire erosion due to starts might be dominant factor here rather than miles.

The only brake service you will probably ever need on a Leaf is to change the fluid at whatever interval you deem necessary. Plenty of discussion here about that if you care to look, but in general, the hydraulics of Leaf brakes aren't much different than any other car.

Sounds like it's past time for an alignment.
Nissan never made a car that could hold an alignment that I am aware of.

Oilpan4 said:

Sounds like it's past time for an alignment.
Nissan never made a car that could hold an alignment that I am aware of.

Click to expand...

I've had several Nissan's....starting with a 1986 Sentra...never had an alignment issue...certainly not a chronic issue :roll:

DrR said:

Thanks for the replies.

We drive fairly easy. No fast accelerations except when needed on a freeway on-ramp. Most of our miles are in-town with some freeway driving, no major twisty hilly roads, no unpaved roads, no curb hits that I know of. Tire pressures have been usually at factory recommended although I see that some are recommending over-inflating but I am worried about braking traction. I haven't had any brake service in 45k miles either so I am due for that (any tips here too will be welcome). I think tire alignment seems fine although hasn't been checked - car travels straight and tires are fairly even.

Its just that we moved to a small town + with COVID WAH, in the last 3 years, car has only racked up 10k miles, so I am thinking tire erosion due to starts might be dominant factor here rather than miles.

Click to expand...

#1 reason for tire wear is underinflation.

#2 All cars wear tires on the front quickest. The drive wheel doesn't matter unless you spin a lot. Every time you turn, your front tires are taking the full brunt of the work to overcome your direction of travel. The rears? They just follow along. On EVERY spirited braking event, the wear on the front tires is 4 to 10X greater than the rears. We now have 4 wheel disc brakes and a lot of car gurus don't know why. The rears simply don't need them. Drums were good enough for nearly all situations. My guess is its just simpler to go with one thing over two.

#3 You have an issue and discounting a possible solution because the car "seems fine" is laughable. Because its obviously not fine otherwise you wouldn't be here.

#4 You cannot judge tire wear by miles. City driving wears out tires MUCH faster than freeway driving does ESPECIALLY if only considering miles traveled. If your driving is predominately city then your tires won't come close to its mileage rating.

Learjet said:

Oilpan4 said:

Sounds like it's past time for an alignment.
Nissan never made a car that could hold an alignment that I am aware of.

Click to expand...

I've had several Nissan's....starting with a 1986 Sentra...never had an alignment issue...certainly not a chronic issue :roll:

Click to expand...

How long did you keep them?

"THE ABOVE POST CONTAINS MISLEADING AND INACCURATE INFORMATION. PLEASE CONSIDER IT OPINION, NOT FACT"

DrR:
1) It would be helpful if you'd tell us where you live and drive. This could be a critical point in this discussion.
2) Nissan recommended PSI is low, in my opinion. It gives a more comfortable ride, but, in my experience, will wear tires. I run mine around 40-42psi, Bridgestone Ecopia Plus (max sidewall printed PSI is 51).
3) There's so much torque with this car, that you need to be gentle from a standing start. You could be scrubbing rubber w/o even knowing it, as it doesn't chirp or make much of a sound at all.
4) I drive all the time in ECO to avoid too much torque/tire wear. I still can give it full throttle when required, but it makes initial movement much more gentle.

Good luck finding a solution!

Oilpan4 said:

Learjet said:

Oilpan4 said:

Sounds like it's past time for an alignment.
Nissan never made a car that could hold an alignment that I am aware of.

Click to expand...

I've had several Nissan's....starting with a 1986 Sentra...never had an alignment issue...certainly not a chronic issue :roll:

Click to expand...

How long did you keep them?

Click to expand...

Sentra ~100,000 miles
Pathfinder ~50,000 miles
Titan - 125,000 miles
Murano ~ 110,000 miles
Leaf ~6,000 miles

Does that make me qualified to have an opinion? :roll:

Well the nissan trucks seem to hold alignment and that's why I specifically said "nissan cars".
My leaf was already chewing up its front tires at 48,000 miles when I got it and that appears to be normal. I replaced all 4 original tires at 60,000 miles, if the alignment hadn't been out of spec I bet the original tires would have gone at least 70,000.

I agree that ECO mode should help the front tires last longer. Non-ECO makes the power control pretty touchy, making it easy to really rip at the front tires.

I have a little trouble with the "better tires on the rear" argument too. It makes sense that oversteer (the back end sliding out) is usually the most dangerous type of control loss, but having the good tires up front can keep you going and reduces stopping distance (assuming the back doesn't slide out!). I thought it was pretty common in earlier decades for front-wheel-drives to only have snow tires up front, but that doesn't fly these days. Maybe we're just not as well-practiced at maintaining traction as we used to be, when there weren't any systems to do it for us.

At least we have it better than the Chevy Spark EV owners. The early ones had 400 lb-ft of torque (in a subcompact car) and they just terrorize front tires. But GM specified different-sized tires front and rear and indicates not to rotate them front-back. It sounds like Spark EV drivers can barely replace pairs of front tires fast enough.

PrairieLEAF said:

...
I have a little trouble with the "better tires on the rear" argument too. It makes sense that oversteer (the back end sliding out) is usually the most dangerous type of control loss, but having the good tires up front can keep you going and reduces stopping distance (assuming the back doesn't slide out!). I thought it was pretty common in earlier decades for front-wheel-drives to only have snow tires up front, but that doesn't fly these days. Maybe we're just not as well-practiced at maintaining traction as we used to be, when there weren't any systems to do it for us....

Click to expand...

When I lived in the Snow Belt I'd go practice "donuts" parking lots upon the first snowfall of the year, to get my slippery-slidey skills back in shape. The first few weeks of winter weather were carnage on the roads until drivers relearned old skills and replaced their bald tires, wiper-blades, etc....

I do think the rotation-phobia is a bit overblown, no doubt due to liability concerns that push them towards a rigid standard. There are other factors to consider such as anticipated road conditions. We have many months of dry weather. If I rotate tires in May, that gives me about 6 months for tire wear to even out the tread depths before I encounter wet roads. Sure there's a "what if" but at some point you're splitting atoms instead of hairs.

I thought it was pretty common in earlier decades for front-wheel-drives to only have snow tires up front, but that doesn't fly these days.

Click to expand...

It was discovered that having lots of grip in the heavier front of a FWD car, in conjunction with much less grip in the lighter rear, led to spinning - not just of tires, but of the whole car, especially in crosswinds. (I personally experienced that.) Putting snows only on the rear of a RWD car works better, because the rear is lighter in those, and you get more balanced traction.

Nubo said:

PrairieLEAF said:

...
I have a little trouble with the "better tires on the rear" argument too. It makes sense that oversteer (the back end sliding out) is usually the most dangerous type of control loss, but having the good tires up front can keep you going and reduces stopping distance (assuming the back doesn't slide out!). I thought it was pretty common in earlier decades for front-wheel-drives to only have snow tires up front, but that doesn't fly these days. Maybe we're just not as well-practiced at maintaining traction as we used to be, when there weren't any systems to do it for us....

Click to expand...

When I lived in the Snow Belt I'd go practice "donuts" parking lots upon the first snowfall of the year, to get my slippery-slidey skills back in shape. The first few weeks of winter weather were carnage on the roads until drivers relearned old skills and replaced their bald tires, wiper-blades, etc....

I do think the rotation-phobia is a bit overblown, no doubt due to liability concerns that push them towards a rigid standard. There are other factors to consider such as anticipated road conditions. We have many months of dry weather. If I rotate tires in May, that gives me about 6 months for tire wear to even out the tread depths before I encounter wet roads. Sure there's a "what if" but at some point you're splitting atoms instead of hairs.

Click to expand...

You think its overblown because you have experienced it and understand countersteering. I am SHOCKED at the lack of basic driving knowledge of people around here (where it rarely snows and the accident rate doubles during rainy season)

And....you are right. It is overblown. Better to rotate every 5,000 miles and replace tires 4 at a time.

DaveinOlyWA said:

...
And....you are right. It is overblown. Better to rotate every 5,000 miles and replace tires 4 at a time.

Click to expand...

I agree. That's the beauty of DIY tire change if you're able -- more frequent rotations without expense. Also provides an opportunity to inspect suspension, brake pads, etc...

Nubo said:

DaveinOlyWA said:

...
And....you are right. It is overblown. Better to rotate every 5,000 miles and replace tires 4 at a time.

Click to expand...

I agree. That's the beauty of DIY tire change if you're able -- more frequent rotations without expense. Also provides an opportunity to inspect suspension, brake pads, etc...

Click to expand...

I rotate my own. Been doing that for decades. Back in my younger days, I could rotate all 4 tires in 15 minutes. Now that I am older, I don't even try to break records and it might take 30-35 minutes. I use two floor jacks and a 12 volt impact. Makes the job relatively easy. I figure I can handle the job at least another 8-10 years or so.