nater
Posts: 100
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:37 am

Re: New Leaf lasts 2 days before crashing

Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:58 pm

Okay, I'm confused. The car was left on, and that somehow killed the 12v battery?

Please explain.

Nate

User avatar
mwalsh
Posts: 9651
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 05 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0213
Location: Garden Grove, CA

Re: New Leaf lasts 2 days before crashing

Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:14 pm

nater wrote:Okay, I'm confused. The car was left on, and that somehow killed the 12v battery?

Please explain.

Nate
Remember, no generator/alternator. So the 12v will eventually get depleted from running of the car's systems.

Now, I was under the impression that the 12v system would take charge from the main pack to keep it charged. So that means a) I was incorrect or b) that did indeed happen, which led to a completely discharged main pack and then, sometime following, would have meant a completely discharged 12v system. However, I'm not so sure the 12v system was completely discharged - the OP said that he could get the car into accessory mode.
2011 Blue Ocean SL with 84,000 miles
2015 pack on 12/30/15
Tinted windows
Bosch AGM 12v
Ecopia 422+ tires
L1 EVSE upgrade
FIAMM horns
Superbright LED lighting
2013 sun visors
LED shifter
Heated seats
GT-R map lamp lenses
Altima illuminated door switches

User avatar
aqn
Gold Member
Posts: 819
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:59 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 1333
Location: Austin, TX

Re: New Leaf lasts 2 days before crashing

Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:34 pm

704hov1095 wrote:[...]12 residual miles[...] As I got up yesterday, the dash charging lights were off and the car would not do anything other than turn on the accessories.
Does "would not do anything" include "shifter will not go into 'D' or 'R', only 'N' or 'P'"?
mwalsh wrote:Flame suit on.....but that sort of sounds to me like you left the car turned on. No timer charging would be my first indicator and the completely dead battery pack my second.
704hov1095 wrote:Ahem, the car is back from a day at the dealer. While there is no absolute proof, examination found 3 error codes that led to a "fail safe state" indicating with strong probability that [...]
From the owner's manual, page 3-11:

"12-VOLT BATTERY SAVER SYSTEM
When all the following conditions are met for 60
minutes, the battery saver system will cut off the
power supply to prevent 12-volt battery discharge.
. The power switch is in the ACC position,
and
. All doors are closed, and
. The vehicle is in the P (Park) position.
"

If your LEAF was in ACC mode, it would shut down by itself after 60 minutes.

The question is whether your LEAF was in ON mode (e.g. if you just push 'P' and/or engage the parking brake) or in ACC mode; I suspect it was in ON mode, since to enter ACC mode from ON mode you need to push the power button twice (with foot off the brake) and it doesn't sound like you did that?

However, even if it was in ON mode all night and the traction battery was not being charged, would the display draw so much power that it would drain the traction battery's "12 miles remaining" charge (from having to charge the 12V battery all night)? 12 miles should be several kWh's worth of charge, even considering the "guess-o-meter" nature of the "miles remaining" display. Was the A/C or the fan on?

(The traction battery charges the 12V when the 12V battery's voltage is too low. From the service manual, section "EVC" page EVC-45:
"The automatic 12V battery charge control is a control to reduce the frequency of battery discharge by automatically
charging the 12V battery in case the 12V battery voltage is low when the key switch is turned to ON
or the vehicle has been left unattended for a long time.
When VCM [Vehicle Control Module] recognizes a need of automatic charge, VCM controls the DC/DC converter and the system main F
relay and charges the 12V battery using the Li-ion battery power.
")

Additionally, your "fail safe" diagnostic codes sound vaguely like a symptom of the "won't go into 'D'" problem. I'm not yet convinced that the issue was simply because of your leaving the car on.
Anna Nguyen

User avatar
mwalsh
Posts: 9651
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 05 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0213
Location: Garden Grove, CA

Re: New Leaf lasts 2 days before crashing

Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:31 am

aqn wrote:However, even if it was in ON mode all night and the traction battery was not being charged, would the display draw so much power that it would drain the traction battery's "12 miles remaining" charge (from having to charge the 12V battery all night)? on.
Yes.

I routinely leave my car at shows in second position accessory mode (so not even as "on") and it will routinely draw the main pack down by a SOC bar over a couple of hours of sitting there. So after 8 hours I'm sure whatever was left in the main pack was well gone and the 12v battery wouldn't have been in that great a shape either.
2011 Blue Ocean SL with 84,000 miles
2015 pack on 12/30/15
Tinted windows
Bosch AGM 12v
Ecopia 422+ tires
L1 EVSE upgrade
FIAMM horns
Superbright LED lighting
2013 sun visors
LED shifter
Heated seats
GT-R map lamp lenses
Altima illuminated door switches

User avatar
EVDRIVER
Moderator
Posts: 6731
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:51 am

Re: New Leaf lasts 2 days before crashing

Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:41 am

You can get failsafe codes for many reasons and other non-related codes as a result of one code indirectly resulting in another, I have read these codes on my car in Consult. In many cases the LEAF issues reported on the forum are user errors, quite a few too embarrassing to admit at the stage of resolution.

User avatar
TomT
Posts: 10645
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:09 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: California, now Georgia
Contact: Website

Re: New Leaf lasts 2 days before crashing

Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:55 am

As another point of reference, as I documented here many months ago, I accidentally left my car on once when I arrived at work. I had eight bars when I arrived at 8am and when I go back to the car some 12 hours later, I was down to four bars. Since it was parked indoor, the lights had also stayed on all that time as they were in Auto...
mwalsh wrote:
aqn wrote:However, even if it was in ON mode all night and the traction battery was not being charged, would the display draw so much power that it would drain the traction battery's "12 miles remaining" charge (from having to charge the 12V battery all night)? on.
Yes.

I routinely leave my car at shows in second position accessory mode (so not even as "on") and it will routinely draw the main pack down by a SOC bar over a couple of hours of sitting there. So after 8 hours I'm sure whatever was left in the main pack was well gone and the 12v battery wouldn't have been in that great a shape either.
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
2019 Model 3; LR, RWD, FSD, 19" Sport Wheels, silver/black; built 3/17/19, delivered 3/29/19.

TNleaf
Posts: 485
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:45 am
Delivery Date: 27 Jul 2011
Leaf Number: 5818

Re: New Leaf lasts 2 days before crashing

Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:00 am

Jimmydreams wrote:After 15 minutes of 'inactivity', the car should chime and a message should come on the dash saying something like "Are you still there?" ...
First thing I thought of...



:lol: That would be awesome.
Res 8/10 | RAQ open 2/11 | EV Project accepted 3/16/11 | DB updated to SLe 3/26/11
Final RAQ->Order 3/27/11 |Est Delivery Wk of 7/29->8/01->8/23->7/28
Blink Installed 7/15
|Delivered 7/27 | VIN 5818
Lifetime Wall-to-Wheels: 4.9 m/kWh

User avatar
EVDRIVER
Moderator
Posts: 6731
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:51 am

Re: New Leaf lasts 2 days before crashing

Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:00 am

I expect we will see many issues like this in the future.

User avatar
mwalsh
Posts: 9651
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 05 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0213
Location: Garden Grove, CA

Re: New Leaf lasts 2 days before crashing

Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:32 am

aqn wrote:"12-VOLT BATTERY SAVER SYSTEM
When all the following conditions are met for 60
minutes, the battery saver system will cut off the
power supply to prevent 12-volt battery discharge.
. The power switch is in the ACC position,
and
. All doors are closed, and
. The vehicle is in the P (Park) position.
"

If your LEAF was in ACC mode, it would shut down by itself after 60 minutes.
My car doesn't do that either. Like I said earlier, I routinely leave my car in the second accessory position for hours upon end, so that folks can see the dash and center stack all lit up.

I do generally leave it with the doors closed but the windows rolled down, so they can stick their head in, and of course it's in Park. The only things that may be wild-cards....this situation may only apply to first accessory position OR opening a door may disrupt this cycle (I can't be completely sure I've stayed out of my car for more than 60 minutes - usually I'll need to get into the hatch, or will open the drivers door so someone can get behind the wheel).
2011 Blue Ocean SL with 84,000 miles
2015 pack on 12/30/15
Tinted windows
Bosch AGM 12v
Ecopia 422+ tires
L1 EVSE upgrade
FIAMM horns
Superbright LED lighting
2013 sun visors
LED shifter
Heated seats
GT-R map lamp lenses
Altima illuminated door switches

SanDust
Posts: 1363
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:54 am

Re: New Leaf lasts 2 days before crashing

Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:45 am

EVDRIVER wrote:I expect we will see many issues like this in the future.
Unfortunately you're right. Also not limited to the Leaf. In fact I think leaving the car on and running the 12V battery flat may be the leading cause of Volts being stranded. The numbers aren't large for either car but you'd expect far more problems with mainstream drivers than early adopters.

It's something of a design flaw. Since the car is silent there aren't any audio clues that it's on, and some people will miss the charging lights. On the other hand I have turned the car on when its plugged in -- pairing a phone etc. -- so you don't want to prevent it. Off the top of my head I'd say chirping and power lights flashing or even lights flashing if it's plugged in and turned on, unless someone is sitting in the front seat or the driver's door is open. (There has to be a sensor for the front seat, yes?).

Something like this.

Return to “Problems / Troubleshooting”