charlie1300
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Location: Albany, NY

Re: Charging - SOC level differs based on prev. discharge

Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:45 pm

If OP has reliable access to charging at work, then charging at 80% at home, driving 42 miles to work (ending up about 30% SOC), then charging back up to 80% at work for the drive home should give him a charging cycle that is good for battery longevity.
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LEAFfan
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Leaf Number: 1855
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Re: Charging - SOC level differs based on prev. discharge

Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:08 pm

JRP3 wrote:Frankly I'm not sure where you get the idea that taking a small charge out of a lead acid battery then quickly recharging it is a bad thing, it's exactly what every starter battery goes through in a car, and most starter batteries can last 5-10 years.
Never had a 12V car battery go even close to 10 years...that's a stretch. In Ohio, I had one go 7. Here, you'll be lucky to have one last more than two years. I've been out here for almost 14 years with two different cars...not one battery has lasted more than 2 1/2 years and most went bad around 2. And I always maintained them, even though they say 'no maintenance'.
2013 LEAF SV Del. 2/28/13
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JRP3
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Re: Charging - SOC level differs based on prev. discharge

Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:59 am

Extreme heat kills lead acid cells, as does extreme cold. Most people don't see the type of heat you do. My average battery life is around 7 years and I've gotten 10 years, with temps ranging from around -15F to 100F, but much milder averages. If shallow discharge and quick recharging were bad for lead acid I wouldn't be seeing anything like that.

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TomT
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Leaf Number: 000360
Location: California, now Georgia
Contact: Website

Re: Charging - SOC level differs based on prev. discharge

Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:25 am

I routinely replace mine at 5 years just for piece of mind and have never had one fail before that point.
JRP3 wrote:Extreme heat kills lead acid cells, as does extreme cold. Most people don't see the type of heat you do. My average battery life is around 7 years and I've gotten 10 years, with temps ranging from around -15F to 100F, but much milder averages. If shallow discharge and quick recharging were bad for lead acid I wouldn't be seeing anything like that.
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
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DaveinOlyWA
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Leaf Number: 319862
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Re: Charging - SOC level differs based on prev. discharge

Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:40 am

Lead acid car battery are getting better but they are designed to maintain a full charge.

An EV would have deep cycle battery that are not designed to stay at full charge all the time.

Either way that is an example that has gotten us sidetracked. Yes battery may have slightly more charge immediately after they have been charged and that charge bleeds off rapidly at first but then slows down after that.

This is float charge. For a. 3volt battery tocharge it must be charged with a higher voltage source. This causes the temporary highe rvoltage. It generally provides only a very small boost in range
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 2640.9 mi, 99.37% SOH
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JRP3
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Re: Charging - SOC level differs based on prev. discharge

Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:22 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:Lead acid car battery are getting better but they are designed to maintain a full charge.

An EV would have deep cycle battery that are not designed to stay at full charge all the time.
Deep cycle lead acid batteries also do better when fully charged. They are built with heavier plates to handle a deeper discharge but they also last longer when slightly discharged and quickly recharged.
Either way that is an example that has gotten us sidetracked. Yes battery may have slightly more charge immediately after they have been charged and that charge bleeds off rapidly at first but then slows down after that.

This is float charge. For a. 3volt battery tocharge it must be charged with a higher voltage source. This causes the temporary highe rvoltage. It generally provides only a very small boost in range
A float charge only applies to lead acid, not lithium, and is simply a low current charged designed to keep a battery topped off. A float charge is not charging a battery that is already near full and then stopping the charge, that's a top off charge. Yes, if his battery is nearly full then adding a little bit more will not add much range, because it's already almost full.

ILETRIC
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Location: Marin County

Re: Charging - SOC level differs based on prev. discharge

Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:54 pm

I really don't want to push my luck charging at work. The chief plant engineer already announced he wanted to talk to me about this Leaf charging business. I've been waiting...hiding in plain sight. I cut it off at 58% charge not to push my luck. Well, last night it gave me another shocker. I'm used to losing all bars about 4 miles from the house. I usually get 6 freeway blinking lines miles to make it home. The little sob hit me with the turtle mode just as I was climbing the last 200 yards home. Got me sweatin'. I figured wet pavement, wipers did it in. Now what is starting to bug me is the range. Last year I've read articles where test guys were getting OVER 100 mile range in 40 mph settings. Yeah, right! Nowhere near that number, folks. That's one pipe dream. My average sits at 3.5 and won't budge.
I've got 2000 miles on it and I do want to destroy that battery before the warranty runs out so I truly don't care topping it off and do whatever I need to do to it to get me where I need to go, particularly coming home from work at 11 pm. Folks, I'm not pullling over. It has to make it home. So now I'm charging longer at work - to over 60% because those no-bars miles seem now shorter than they were just 2 weeks ago. I must say today is a dry day and the miles behaved much better coming in, I arrived with 42 smilley miles after a top-off.
Antother thing: I use cruise control. Some contend it's a mile eater. Since I was running out of juice last night, I did the pedal -- ease up, push a little, ease up - you know, a little charging up. I don't think it helped at all. Barely made it up the hill.
So, I wonder now if my battery is factory correct, meaning, are all segments (144 of them?) in working order? Where is that 100 mile range? I love the car, save for the crappy-sounding stereo, but I really thought I was going to make my 82-mile round trip and I'm nowhere near that - short at least 10 miles. So, freeway - we're talking 70 miles max at 66 mph. Am I correct? Is that all it can do?
------------------------------------------------
1st bar lost at 38,700 miles/22 months
2nd bar lost at 45,750 miles/27 months

Traded-in on 10-19-2014 at 56,150 miles
-------------> for Kia Soul EV+ <-------------

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walterbays
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Re: Charging - SOC level differs based on prev. discharge

Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:14 pm

ILETRIC wrote:I really don't want to push my luck charging at work. The chief plant engineer already announced he wanted to talk to me about this Leaf charging business.
Maybe you can win him over. Offer to pay for the electricity. Ask what the company pays per kWh. On L2 you're probably using about 60 cents per hour. (Much less on L1.) If your car is typically fully or 80% charged after 3 hours that's $1.80. Offer 2 bucks a day. Offer downloads from Carwings of kWh usage to correlate in a spreadsheet with your home charging data to back out kWh day by day.

If he protests that he's not spending all that effort on a spreadsheet for $2, and that he spends more than that per employee on coffee and donuts, agree, and give him a Starbucks card and a box of donuts. Take him for a ride in the car to go get the donuts. Let him drive it back.

Ask if the company has or is seeking LEEDS certification, and show him how EV charging stations earn him points. Show him how to get subsidies for L2 EVSE station installation, on Blink or Chargepoint networks to handle billing at whatever rates he sets.

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garygid
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Re: Charging - SOC level differs based on prev. discharge

Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:19 pm

Yep, ... plus or minus 10 to 20!

You can learn to use it for what it is, or fight it and complain.

You can fill your car a bit more, drive more gently, or ... try to beat it to death. Your choice.
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
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planet4ever
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Location: Morgan Hill, CA, south of San Jose

Re: Charging - SOC level differs based on prev. discharge

Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:47 pm

ILETRIC wrote:So, freeway - we're talking 70 miles max at 66 mph. Am I correct? Is that all it can do?
Before you picked up the car the dealer made you sign a four-page "Customer Disclosure Form", and by your signature you acknowledged "that I have carefully read and understand all of the written information contained in this document."

Of course nobody really does read it before signing, but it turns out there is some important information in there, including five range scenarios. The only highway driving case they show is 55 mph in the summer, and their estimated range is ... 70 miles.

So, 70 miles at 66 mph is way more than they told you to expect. Now, their scenario is for 95 degrees with the air conditioner on high, so you should be able to beat it if you keep the A/C down or off, but the undeniable fact is that in an EV speed kills range. You want 80 miles? You'll have to keep your speed under 60. Think you should be able to get 100 miles? Try 45 mph or, as the disclosure sheet says, suburban driving on a mild day with an average speed of 24 mph.

Ray
End of April 2013: Traded my 2011 SL for a 2013 S with charge pkg.

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