opossum
Posts: 153
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:40 pm
Delivery Date: 21 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 500
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:17 pm

Scott's typical commutes across town involve lots of high-speed miles in the HOV lane on the freeway. Oh, and it's hot as hell, so there's just a little bit of air conditioner use... even at 8am. :oops: So that factors into his awful GoM range estimates, as referenced in DesertDenizen's post, in addition to the "normal" behavior from the batteries. :lol:

James, I'd love to have the pack on our car pulled and independently evaluated! If only cost and fear of violating what little warranty we might have were not factors! But who knows. Maybe it will come to that. If we need a third party, professional evaluation of the batteries to force our hand with Nissan, maybe we'll have to go that route.

Scott said he submitted complaints to NHTSA and Consumer Reports also. I'd recommend people start the official warranty process, too, as laid out by Nissan. It's a 87,000 step process. It includes filing a complaint with the BBB as well, writing to Nissan, and a million other things, ultimately leading to a non-binding arbitration.
azdre/opossum, Phoenix, 3/21/11 purchase, 10/2/12 lemon law return.
23k miles, 3 bars lost, officially rated "normal" by Nissan

shrink
Posts: 360
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:21 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Jun 2012
Leaf Number: 21842
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:38 pm

I just filed an NHTSA complaint as well, even though I sold the LEAF with a lost capacity bar. I want to support the cause and I'm pretty sure my 2012 LEAF will be facing the same issues next year. Thankfully, that's leased.
Your Complaint Information has been successfully submitted.
Your Confirmation Number (ODI Number) is: 10469924.
I actually contacted CR and contemplated an NHTSA complaint back in June when I first lost my bar. I didn't post the details here because I didn't want to post my playbook publicly, but it seems we are long past that point.

I'm going to paste the original reply I received from CR below. I also think opposum's suggestion RE: the warranty process is an excellent one.
Thank you for taking the time to contact Consumer Reports®. I want to express how much we value your choice of our products and services to help you make informed purchasing decisions.

As you know, monitoring and promoting both the quality and safety of automobiles is an integral part of our mission. We value your help in this effort. You have provided us with important feedback on your Nissan Leaf, for which I thank you. I have forwarded your correspondence to our Auto Test Division and Editorial Staff for their review and consideration for future reports. I am sure that they, too, will find your experience to be of value.

You may also want to share your experience with the following organizations, which may be able to provide you with information and/or offer assistance:

• Center for Auto Safety (CAS), 1825 Connecticut Ave, NW, Ste. 330, Washington, DC 20009-5708. The CAS compiles information on defective automobiles, ranging from transmissions problems to paint problems. If you wish, you may send them a letter sharing your experiences with them. Should they have any information on your particular automobile, they will forward it to you, along with helpful information and advice within 10 days from date of receipt of their letter. They ask, but do not require, a $.60 SASE to help keep their costs down. Or you can visit their website at http://www.autosafety.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

• Council of Better Business Bureaus, Inc. at 4200 Wilson Boulevard, Arlington, VA 22203; 1-703-276-0100. The council of Better Business Bureaus, the umbrella organization for the BBBs, also provides programs and publications for consumers, and helps to settle disputes with automobile manufacturers through the BBB Auto Line program.

• National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, 1200 New Jersey Avenue SE, West Building, Washington, DC 20590, 1-888-327-4236 or 1-202-366-0123. The NHTSA assures compliance by domestic and foreign motor vehicle and equipment manufacturers with motor vehicle safety standards, automobile recalls, and airline problems. You may wish to visit their Website at http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, where you will be able to obtain information on air bags, child safety seats, and automobile crash test results. You can also search through an extensive list of automobile and automobile equipment recall notices, and report any problems that you have encountered with your automobile.

• Your State Attorney General’s Office, which resolves individual consumer complaints, conducts informational and educational programs, and enforces consumer protection and fraud laws. You can find their telephone number in the blue section of your telephone book or by visiting the following URL: http://www.naag.org/current-attorneys-general.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Consumer Reports is committed to making your experience positive and informative.

Sincerely,

(name redacted)
Representative
Customer Relations Department
2011 LEAF (Sold) | 2012 Volt (Sold) | 2012 LEAF (Lease Ended) | 2010 Tesla Roadster #501 | 2013 Tesla Model S #9001 | 6.827 kW SunPower PV System

cwerdna
Posts: 9801
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

NHTSA and non-safety complaints

Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:02 pm

So, for those of you who are submitting non-safety complaints to NHTSA, can you please point me to info on their site that indicates that's appropriate?

I glanced thru the reports at http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/probl ... eports.cfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and every single line item appears to be safety-related defect.

I'm all for filing complaints w/the Consumer Reports, BBB, appropriate govt body, etc. but NHTSA sure doesn't seem right, given the word safety everywhere I've seen when it comes to safety complaints.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

shrink
Posts: 360
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:21 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Jun 2012
Leaf Number: 21842
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: NHTSA and non-safety complaints

Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:21 am

cwerdna wrote:So, for those of you who are submitting non-safety complaints to NHTSA, can you please point me to info on their site that indicates that's appropriate?

I glanced thru the reports at http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/probl ... eports.cfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and every single line item appears to be safety-related defect.

I'm all for filing complaints w/the Consumer Reports, BBB, appropriate govt body, etc. but NHTSA sure doesn't seem right, given the word safety everywhere I've seen when it comes to safety complaints.
http://www.nhtsa.gov/nhtsa/Cfc_title49/ ... part_C.PDF" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

§ 32302. Passenger motor vehicle information
(a) Information program.--The Secretary of Transportation shall maintain a program for developing the
following information on passenger motor vehicles:
(1) damage susceptibility.
(2) crashworthiness.
(3) the degree of difficulty of diagnosis and repair of damage to, or failure of, mechanical and electrical systems.
(4) vehicle operating costs dependent on the characteristics referred to in clauses (1)-(3) of this subsection, including insurance information obtained under section 32303 of this title.

Perhaps this issue loosely falls under #3, "failure of electrical systems."

Regardless, I see no harm in filing a complaint. If it's inappropriate, they'll let us know.
2011 LEAF (Sold) | 2012 Volt (Sold) | 2012 LEAF (Lease Ended) | 2010 Tesla Roadster #501 | 2013 Tesla Model S #9001 | 6.827 kW SunPower PV System

cwerdna
Posts: 9801
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:28 am

^^^
That's interesting. OTOH, I can't think of a time where NHTSA has chimed in on anything or had data we can search relating to item #3.

Everything they have seems to be focused on safety and FMVSS compliance (w/the 2nd to last S=Safety).

My wild guess is that the FTC might be more appropriate since one of their charters is consumer protection. http://www.azag.gov/AllComplaints.html#consumer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; seems like it might be reasonable for folks in AZ. From that page:
We investigate complaints involving misrepresentations and deceptive practices which occur in connection with the sale or advertisement of goods or services. If you feel you have been the victim of or have information of such misrepresentations or deceptive practices, please complete one of the following:
For CA, http://www.bar.ca.gov/80_BARResources/0 ... aints.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; looks like it's more to file a complaint against a auto repair facility or smog check station.

Perhaps other AZ and/or other states have some sort of consumer protection body?

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

User avatar
planet4ever
Posts: 4674
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:53 pm
Delivery Date: 02 May 2011
Leaf Number: 1537
Location: Morgan Hill, CA, south of San Jose

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:01 am

dsh wrote:New Question....For LEAF owners who charge to 80% regularly...how many miles does does your dashboard read when you first start out driving the car after the charge... 80 miles, 75 miles available? Curious to find out.
I don't understand the point of the question. I charge to 80%, and the next day my GuessOMeter shows anything from 55 to 95, depending on how and where I was last driving the day before. I guess if you always ride home hard from work and put it away wet then the GOM might be much more consistent - for you - but your numbers wouldn't be comparable to anyone else's numbers.

Ray
End of April 2013: Traded my 2011 SL for a 2013 S with charge pkg.

Herm
Posts: 3765
Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 3:08 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Aug 2012
Location: Timbuktu, Mali

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:23 am

Can the NHTSA require Nissan to release their data on battery degradation?.. hopefully during the required annual test the battery capacity is recorded and reported back to the home office in Japan.

ALLWATZ
Posts: 92
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:15 am
Delivery Date: 14 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 6877
Location: Palm Springs area

Re: NHTSA doesn't seem like proper place for non-safety comp

Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:00 am

cwerdna wrote: When you get to the form at https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleCo ... ndex.xhtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, again, it says SAFETY at the top. If you click on the Help link, it also says "Filing a Vehicle Safety Complaint... You can use the Vehicle Safety Complaint form to register a safety complaint about your vehicle."

There can be and have been SAFETY-related defects in power windows (e.g. door fires due to faulty power window switches).

Per http://www.nhtsa.gov/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, NHTSA stands for National Highway Traffic SAFETY Administration.

I wouldn't worry about the "black helicopters" coming out of their hangers and flying over your house just yet by just sending in an inquiry.

Yes, the word safety does appear many times in the text of the web site. First and foremost this is a gov. agency for the investigation of safety related issues with cars that the manufacturer has not taken care of properly. Some would argue that not having enough miles to complete a trip is not a safety issue.

It does take in all inquiries and what are you afraid of? At worst if only 2 or 3 of us send in issues that they deem unsuitable for there mission statement , they will simply dismiss them. On the other hand, if enough send in problems, they may actually investigate. A win-win situation as we will be known as "job creators" and will see our tax dollars at work.

User avatar
TickTock
Posts: 1701
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:30 pm
Delivery Date: 31 May 2011
Leaf Number: 3626
Location: Queen Creek, Arizona
Contact: Website

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:16 am

dsh wrote:TickTock, can you confirm you were down 2 capacity bars, and now since getting vehicle back from Casa Grande, you are back to 12? If this is the case, anybody have any answers how TickTock got the capacity back from 10 to 12 bars????
Yes, I was at 10 capacity bars prior to handing them the keys (I actually made a point to check since I had the car sitting unused for 2 weeks prior to that). I believe they just reset something in the computer and it will take some time for it to re-adjust. Maybe they will go away again very shortly. But then again, it looks like I picked up 10% capacity since getting it back. That is enough to get 2 bars back. I am now seeing 193 gids for 80% charge while before, I saw as low as 172. Pretty close to the 87% they told me (193/281/0.8 = 86%). I will do a 100% charge on Friday - maybe even plot a curve (surprise, surprise ;) ).
Last edited by TickTock on Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
TickTock
Posts: 1701
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:30 pm
Delivery Date: 31 May 2011
Leaf Number: 3626
Location: Queen Creek, Arizona
Contact: Website

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:21 am

BTW, while they had the car, I also installed a swamp cooler in my garage. Cost less than the cost of a single replacement cell and they are very cheap to operate (especially if on a timer). I hate having to pamper my Leaf, but I'd hate to give it up even more.

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