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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:49 pm
by OrientExpress
11.

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:53 pm
by JRP3
OrientExpress wrote:

Of the fewer than 10 posters that make up the the vast majority of the posts in the 148+ pages of this thread, I'm probably the most rationale one of the bunch. Edge case phenomena is going to happen in every situation, and this situation is one of those. It will be corrected, but as in every edge case that is more than 1 std. dev from the mean, it will take a lot of effort and time to make the incremental improvement that will solve this situation.
You're sort of ignoring the shit storm of bad press this is going to bring to Nissan, the LEAF, and EV's in general. The FUD police are going to run wild with this.

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:57 pm
by OrientExpress
Stoaty wrote:
azdre wrote: ...
30. NOC8H18 - July, 2012 - 3rd capacity bar lost. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 50#p213437" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
31. TC Phoenix, AZ- 1 bar loss
32. DH Phoenix, AZ- 2 bar loss
33. RobR Phoenix, AZ - 2 bar loss
34. GF Phoenix, AZ- 1 bar loss

...
I thought Nissan said there were only 5 cases. ;) Perhaps they meant 35? :roll:
A bit of perspective, of the 32,000 LEAFs sold world-wide to date, there are now 0.0010625% in this list.

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:00 pm
by Stoaty
OrientExpress wrote:Stuff happens, and edge case things happen in extreme environments. Your 3 bar guy can still drive his car just fine, everything works just fine, he just has to "fill-up" more often.

And with most edge cases, an inordinate amount of effort will be expended to compensate for that less that 1% situation.
Yeah, 34 cases of early capacity loss, most in Arizona... and these are just the ones we know about. These are definitely "edge cases": some are on the edge of losing significant utility of their car very early in the claimed battery life from Nissan. The problem as I see it is that Nissan isn't expending any effort to compensate for this situation--except, of course, to deny that there is a problem (or when pushed, to call it "normal").

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:03 pm
by Stoaty
OrientExpress wrote:A bit of perspective, of the 32,000 LEAFs sold world-wide to date, there are now 0.0010625% in this list.
Yes, and that is 5 times as many as there were a few weeks ago. (Edit: to be strictly accurate, the list has started at 1 and increased to 34 reported cases over about 10 weeks; more cases are coming out of the woodwork as the word spreads). The situation in the hot climates is still developing, and apparently at a pretty rapid rate.

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:14 pm
by HXGuy
I would say it's probably safe to assume that if there are 400 LEAFs between Phoenix/Tucson, that either all of them already have or will have the same capacity loss as the 34 people on here are seeing. It just happens that those 34 people are here on this forum, and that's actually pretty high, almost 10% of LEAF owners but I'm sure the majority of LEAF owners do not visit forums and are not nearly as informed as people on here. They probably have no noticed the lost bar(s) and have no noticed a loss of range yet, but that does not mean they won't in time.

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:18 pm
by OrientExpress
12.

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:28 pm
by OrientExpress
Stoaty wrote: Yes, and that is 5 times as many as there were a few weeks ago. The situation in the hot climates is still developing, and apparently at a pretty rapid rate.
On a post in this thread on June 28th there were 19 cars on the list, now there are 34. If there were 5 times as many today, that would be 95, would it not?

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:29 pm
by Stoaty
OrientExpress wrote:Essentially the story here is :
Some people who live in the desert are quoted as saying that they love their electric cars, but wish it wasn't so darn hot so that their batteries would hold a charge, better (that's news?). Manufacturer says they will see what they can do to fix it.
Corrrection to the story: Many people who live in the desert are losing capacity much faster than Nissan claimed, even though Nissan bragged about testing in Arizona and made it one of the initial rollout states and said the battery pack would be OK there. They got upset when someone from another EV manufacturer (Tesla) said that going without a TMS was going to lead to trouble in places like Phoenix. Now manufacturer says it isn't really happening, but if it is, it is "normal".

Edit: added to ignore list to save wasted typing.

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:47 pm
by JRP3
OrientExpress wrote:
Essentially the story here is :
Some people who live in the desert are quoted as saying that they love their electric cars, but wish it wasn't so darn hot so that their batteries would hold a charge, better (that's news?). Manufacturer says they will see what they can do to fix it. Meanwhile the earth keeps getting hotter, and everyone who lives in the desert continue to have issues with their batteries in their cars (of all types) as they have since the first car was put into service in the desert.

Side story, all sorts of other mechanical and electrical things also have issues operating in the extreme heat, some grumble, others chalk it up to the fact its so darn hot in the desert. Life goes on.

This story doesn't have anyone getting stranded, killed, burned to death, having their cars not starting, being taken up by aliens, seeing elvis, having their birth certificate vetted by the sheriff, or any other newsworthy attribute that makes a shit storm, so sit back, relax and take deep breaths, tell Nissan you don't like the situation with your car, and give them some time to figure out a solution.
There are powerful forces determined to kill the EV. They have been predicting that EV batteries will die early deaths, that the vehicles will become useless because of loss of range, and that the general public will abandon them as reliable transportation because of that. The recent problems with the LEAF in hot climates gives them "proof" that they can reference to back their claims, and they will.
In the meantime, your car still works just fine, you just have to fill up more often.
Bull, if you can't even get to work on a single charge your car does not work just fine, or if you don't have the ability to charge at work and you can't do the round trip on a single charge, your car does not work just fine. I have to say you're being completely ridiculous.