cwerdna
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:26 pm

shrink wrote:
OrientExpress wrote:I'm probably the most rationale one of the bunch.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hardly, but certainly one with the most hubris.
OrientExpress wrote: Your 3 bar guy can still drive his car just fine, everything works just fine, he just has to "fill-up" more often.
...
Tell you what, I'd like you to recommend purchasing one of these perfectly functional Phoenix area LEAFs to one of you friends in cool California - at the full market values you keep quoting. In fact, why don't you buy the cars featured in the news report? They are, of course, working perfectly and worth just as much as other LEAFs of a similar age and mileage. It's only rational.
Yep, OrientExpress should put his money where his mouth is. He should be willing to swap his Leaf for one of the AZ/TX Leafs that have lost some capacity bars, preferably 3. :) Someone else suggested it before.
Last edited by cwerdna on Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:43 pm

azdre wrote: ...
30. NOC8H18 - July, 2012 - 3rd capacity bar lost. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 50#p213437" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
31. TC Phoenix, AZ- 1 bar loss
32. DH Phoenix, AZ- 2 bar loss
33. RobR Phoenix, AZ - 2 bar loss
34. GF Phoenix, AZ- 1 bar loss

...
leafwing wrote:I contacted Nissan Leaf support on 7-13-2012. My case number is 8934763.
All added to the MNL Wiki. Additionally, the 3rd bar loss table has been set up there. Please be sure to PM me any info that can go into any of those blank spaces on your personal entries. We need all the data we can get. :D
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opossum
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:06 pm

Okay, OrientExpress, declare yourself. What is your job title with Nissan North America? If you are not employed by Nissan, then please set the crack pipe down. Once you have set it down, continue reading...

People for a while were debating the true reach of this issue. Most seem to be on the same page now and agree that, in time, all or nearly all cars in the hot climates will see this dramatic capacity loss. For Mark Perry and those who may still be hitting the crack pipe, here is my own, personal data sample...

There are 10 people (including my wife) I knew before they purchased Leafs (or met immediately after they purchased their Leafs). I did not meet any of these people *because* they began complaining of capacity/range issues. I simply met them before or immediately after they purchased Leafs. And now, 9 to 15 months later, let's check in on those 10 cars (all here in Phoenix) and see whether they have lost any capacity...

1. 2 bars
2. 2 bars
3. 2 bars
4. 1 bar
5. 1 bar
6. 1 bar (then sold car)
7. 1 bar
8. on the cusp of losing 1 bar (based on GID measurements and comparable cars/measurements)
9. I don't talk to this person regularly. I will ask.
10. I don't talk to this person regularly. I will ask.

So...

30% have already lost 2 bars (21%+)
40% have already lost 1 bar (15%+)
10% have just about lost 1 bar (~15%)
20% owned by coworkers that I haven't spoken to in a while... I'll check with them tomorrow.

Forgive me if I have a hard time believing anything written or spoken by OrientExpress or Mark Perry.......
azdre/opossum, Phoenix, 3/21/11 purchase, 10/2/12 lemon law return.
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:13 pm

opossum wrote:There are 10 people (including my wife) I knew before they purchased Leafs (or met immediately after they purchased their Leafs). I did not meet any of these people *because* they began complaining of capacity/range issues. I simply met them before or immediately after they purchased Leafs. And now, 9 to 15 months later, let's check in on those 10 cars (all here in Phoenix) and see whether they have lost any capacity...
Thanks for providing this sample since it's hard to really know what percent of AZ LEAFS will soon or have already lost bars.

I'm very baffled at Mark Perry's response. Well over 2 months into this issue and he says they are still only researching 5 cars? I think we have to assume that they've looked at the battery report data and aren't seeing any trends in AZ, or they haven't let Mark Perry know about it, or he's lying. I sure wish there was someone on the inside of the Nissan machine who could be frank with us and really let us know WTF is going on.

Volusiano
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:40 pm

opossum wrote:Okay, OrientExpress, declare yourself. What is your job title with Nissan North America? If you are not employed by Nissan, then please set the crack pipe down. Once you have set it down, continue reading...

People for a while were debating the true reach of this issue. Most seem to be on the same page now and agree that, in time, all or nearly all cars in the hot climates will see this dramatic capacity loss. For Mark Perry and those who may still be hitting the crack pipe, here is my own, personal data sample...

There are 10 people (including my wife) I knew before they purchased Leafs (or met immediately after they purchased their Leafs). I did not meet any of these people *because* they began complaining of capacity/range issues. I simply met them before or immediately after they purchased Leafs. And now, 9 to 15 months later, let's check in on those 10 cars (all here in Phoenix) and see whether they have lost any capacity...

1. 2 bars
2. 2 bars
3. 2 bars
4. 1 bar
5. 1 bar
6. 1 bar (then sold car)
7. 1 bar
8. on the cusp of losing 1 bar (based on GID measurements and comparable cars/measurements)
9. I don't talk to this person regularly. I will ask.
10. I don't talk to this person regularly. I will ask.

So...

30% have already lost 2 bars (21%+)
40% have already lost 1 bar (15%+)
10% have just about lost 1 bar (~15%)
20% owned by coworkers that I haven't spoken to in a while... I'll check with them tomorrow.

Forgive me if I have a hard time believing anything written or spoken by OrientExpress or Mark Perry.......
Thank you for schooling OrientExpress on how to do statistical sampling the right way. We did try to school him on the right way to do sampling many posts ago on this thread, but apparently it was still lost on him. Too bad he couldn't wrap his brain around the concept of proper sampling. Or perhaps he's learning from Mark Perry about playing dumb.

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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:12 am

Once again, you fail to grasp the concept of statistical analysis. You need to compare the number that have lost capacity in Phoenix to the total number sold IN Phoenix. Including others outside of these hot areas is completely meaningless.
OrientExpress wrote:A bit of perspective, of the 32,000 LEAFs sold world-wide to date, there are now 0.0010625% in this list.
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:58 am

I would also be interested in what the air temps were doing their charging..Midnight in my garage is 90+
HXGuy wrote:Does anyone know during what period, how long and how many miles the testing took place in Arizona?

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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:42 am

OrientExpress wrote:

Yes, given enough time and cycles there is pretty much a 100% chance that I might say something that makes sense but there has been no evidence of this so far.
Fixed your quote for you. You obviously aren't rational so I won't waste my time. For the record I don't have a LEAF and don't live in a hot climate so this issue doesn't affect me personally, other than offending my sense of fairness, and causing me to question Nissan's management team. They need to attack this issue aggressively to reassure the current owners and potential future customers.

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mwalsh
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:27 am

The genie is definitely out of the bottle now...this story posted to both Autoblog and Autoblog Green yesterday evening, and lots of other sites pick up their auto news from there.
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:52 am

QueenBee wrote:
opossum wrote:There are 10 people (including my wife) I knew before they purchased Leafs (or met immediately after they purchased their Leafs). I did not meet any of these people *because* they began complaining of capacity/range issues. I simply met them before or immediately after they purchased Leafs. And now, 9 to 15 months later, let's check in on those 10 cars (all here in Phoenix) and see whether they have lost any capacity...
Thanks for providing this sample since it's hard to really know what percent of AZ LEAFS will soon or have already lost bars.

I'm very baffled at Mark Perry's response. Well over 2 months into this issue and he says they are still only researching 5 cars? I think we have to assume that they've looked at the battery report data and aren't seeing any trends in AZ, or they haven't let Mark Perry know about it, or he's lying. I sure wish there was someone on the inside of the Nissan machine who could be frank with us and really let us know WTF is going on.
As of this morning the WIKI battery page only shows 9 people with a customer service case number. How many of these were only reported after Mark Perry's phone interview this week. Could it be there really were only 5 reported cases at the time of his comments. He could be telling the truth.

The Nissan customer service people do NOT have time to read this forum. If you people have a problem with the battery pack you need to take time to report it to Nissan.

For all of those that have lost a battery capacity bar I feel your pain as a Leaf owner myself. I also can see it from Nissan's point of view that they have sold thousands of cars world wide and only a very small number have reported capacity loss so far. My own car is only 6 months old and I have only had a GID meter for about a week. My own car shows a very small loss if any. In my case it may be that 5 years and 20% capacity loss might be a reasonable estimate.

Full Disclosure - I am a Leaf owner and I DO NOT work for Nissan and I still think the Leaf is a good car.
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