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mwalsh
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Leaf Number: 0213
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:26 pm

Gosh, tough crowd. At least give them time to properly investigate the AZ cars! They've had them, what, a week?
2011 Blue Ocean SL with 83,000 miles
2015 pack on 12/30/15
Tinted windows
Bosch AGM 12v
Ecopia 422+ tires
L1 EVSE upgrade
FIAMM horns
Superbright LED lighting
2013 sun visors
LED shifter
Heated seats
GT-R map lamp lenses
Altima illuminated door switches

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surfingslovak
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:32 pm

DesertDenizen wrote:I am with Tony, it is a bunch of blah blah blah. Of and if it is only 0.3% of owners, why not make us whole?
I welcome this letter. It's a very positive step in the right direction, at least in my mind. That said, 0.003 x 13,000 = 39, which is nearly exactly the length of the list maintained on the Wiki. That's a rather strange coincidence. Are we sure we tracked down all the owners that lost a bar?Image

dandrewk
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Leaf Number: 018580
Location: San Rafael, CA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:35 pm

surfingslovak wrote:
DesertDenizen wrote:I am with Tony, it is a bunch of blah blah blah. Of and if it is only 0.3% of owners, why not make us whole?
I welcome this letter. In my mind, it's a very positive step in the right direction. That said, 0.003 x 13,000 = 39, which is nearly exactly the length of the list maintained on the Wiki. That's a rather strange coincidence. Are we sure we tracked down all the owners that lost a bar?Image
I took it to mean data collected via CarWings. But it's not very specific.

EdmondLeaf
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:35 pm

If Nissan know so well all the factors affecting battery capacity, why is so hard to get recommendations how to lower capacity loss, they should give us their recommendation long ago. Losing 9% of GIDs within 2 mo driving in OK to me is a big loss. Letter is nice, but I was expecting more detailed info how to take care of the car during normal summer temp. Maybe next letter will answer my questions

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surfingslovak
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:39 pm

dandrewk wrote:I took it to mean data collected via CarWings. But it's not very specific.
Carla Bailo wrote:Battery data collected from Nissan LEAFs to date currently indicates that less than 0.3
percent of Nissan LEAFs in the U.S. (including vehicles in service dating back to December,
2010) have experienced a loss of any battery capacity bars. Overall, this universe of
vehicles represents a very small fraction of the more than 13,000 Nissan LEAFs on U.S.
roads. Also, data received globally from other LEAF vehicles shows that this condition
typically occurs to high-mileage cars or those in unique operating situations.
I think the 0.3% is essentially what's publicly known via this forum and the Wiki, and Nissan is not sharing any additional information beyond that. All they are willing to say is that this condition occurred to high-mileage cars or those in unique operating situations, which was presumably determined via CarWings.

dandrewk
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:43 pm

surfingslovak wrote:
dandrewk wrote:I took it to mean data collected via CarWings. But it's not very specific.
Carla Bailo wrote:Battery data collected from Nissan LEAFs to date currently indicates that less than 0.3
percent of Nissan LEAFs in the U.S. (including vehicles in service dating back to December,
2010) have experienced a loss of any battery capacity bars. Overall, this universe of
vehicles represents a very small fraction of the more than 13,000 Nissan LEAFs on U.S.
roads. Also, data received globally from other LEAF vehicles shows that this condition
typically occurs to high-mileage cars or those in unique operating situations.
I think the 0.3% is essentially what's publicly known via this forum and the Wiki, and Nissan is not sharing any additional information beyond that. All they are willing to say is that this condition occurred to high-mileage cars or those in unique operating situations, which was presumably determined via CarWings.
Does CarWings upload battery capacity levels (bars or gids) as part of normal data collection?

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surfingslovak
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:46 pm

dandrewk wrote:Does CarWings upload battery capacity levels (bars or gids) as part of normal data collection?
Judging from some of the early information, it's reasonable to assume that CarWings receives battery level in Wh (our Gids) and the charge log. I'm not sure if they transmitted any information pertaining to permanent capacity loss, but based on my reading of the letter and the information contained therein, I'm assuming that this is not the case. However, I could be easily wrong on this. It would be great to know what's being sent, much like what Phil found about the annual battery check.
Last edited by surfingslovak on Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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gbarry42
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:49 pm

Interesting from the standpoint of Nissan being surprised by all this. I have read lots of lectures here about how Nissan tested batteries in Arizona long before the car was delivered.

I am also a bit uneasy about how the deterioration is supposed to "slow down after the initial loss". It's a great way to put off the owners, telling them "wait another year and see what happens".
And there goes the first capacity bar! At 24,000 mi on 9/9/2013.
Second bar at 30,500 mi on 2/7/2015.

GaslessInSeattle
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Leaf Number: 850

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:50 pm

that's because you are willing to "bundle up" to stay warm. the reference, IMHO, is 100% related to the climate control and has nothing to do with added battery capacity or TMS. don't forget, some people were seeing a loss of 50% range with liberal Climate Control during the winter months. Most folks want to set the climate control on auto, set the temp they like and then not think about it any more, for those folks, the heat pump will be a big range extender. For those of us who are satisfied with prewarming and heated seats and steering wheel, a heat pump will make little difference. lets hope they give us control of the f-ing circulating fan, without having CC on!

God help those who live in a climate that gets extremely hot in the summer and very cold in the winter.
DaveinOlyWA wrote:...
not sure a heat pump will give us that much. there is not enough to gain by making the heater work better. fact of the matter; without a thermal controls, the LEAF pack stores at least 2 KW LESS when it is cold.

i ran several tests of this last winter and each showed me to only have 18.5 to 19.2 KW at my disposal and this is on a pack with ZERO degradation, so all the loss was due to a cold pack.

take that equation out and i was really only losing maybe 10-12 miles of range due to running the heater. of course that depended on how fast i was driving, how far i was going and how cold it was.
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ztanos
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:57 pm

Just read this on Facebook:

Nissan LEAF
There have been growing concerns among the Nissan LEAF community - specifically from several owners in the Phoenix area - about battery capacity loss they're experiencing with their LEAF. To address the reports, Carla Bailo, Senior Vice President of Research and Development for Nissan Americas, has written an open letter to LEAF Owners on MyNissanLEAF.com, the forum whose community helped bring concerns to our attention.

We are committed to working closely with our owners who have reported battery capacity loss to get answers that the LEAF community deserve in a timely and transparent manner. Nissan engineers from our Arizona Testing Center and around the world will study each customer case, work to understanding the root cause and will determine next steps to satisfy our customers.

Thank you to all of our LEAF Owners who have shared their feedback here on the Nissan LEAF Facebook Page, we can't do this without you. - Nissan Social

My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - Early Capacity Losses
http://www.mynissanleaf.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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