User avatar
lemketron
Posts: 242
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:46 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2011
Leaf Number: 1554
Location: Sunnyvale, CA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:53 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Valdemar wrote:Oh boy, this thread has definitely beaten all records by the amount of speculation contained. Just to throw one more into the mix, does anyone think that all these issues may be related to a bad batch of batteries?
no
Agreed. I think it's more likely that a fix (or some solution) is in the works (perhaps also in the 2013 car, possibly from TN, or not), but given the ultimate cost of deploying that fix to existing cars in the field, they would likely want to take their time in testing it to ensure they only have to fix it ONCE and for all...
Reserved: 4/20/10, Ordered: 10/27/10, Delivered 5/10/11
Drivin' on sunshine! 5.4 KW Solar PV, PG&E E6 TOU, Blink EVSE (EV Project)
20,000+ miles of zero-emission solar-powered driving at $.01/mile!

Valdemar
Posts: 2665
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:55 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Valdemar wrote:Oh boy, this thread has definitely beaten all records by the amount of speculation contained. Just to throw one more into the mix, does anyone think that all these issues may be related to a bad batch of batteries?
no
Can you elaborate please? The fact that only a fraction of AZ users, including ones that followed "long battery life" recommendations, experienced catastrophic battery capacity loss may well point into that direction.
Last edited by Valdemar on Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

palmermd
Posts: 2628
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:19 pm
Delivery Date: 31 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 1100011011
Location: Hermosa Beach, CA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:59 pm

Valdemar wrote: Can you elaborate please? The fact that only a fraction of AZ users, including ones that followed "long battery life" recommendations, experienced catastrophic battery capacity may well point into that direction.
How do you explain that all the bad batteries ended up in Arizona when vin numbers are not sequential and there are vin's outside AZ that are working just fine that should have been in the same "batch"?
Michael

Leaf from 31 March 2011 - Traded 18 April 2019 for Tesla Model 3 Unicorn
Driving electric since 1996


Leaf Bar Loss

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 6419
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:01 pm

Valdemar wrote:Can you elaborate please?
The batteries in the LEAFs in AZ are losing capacity in precisely the manner expected for the chemistry that Nissan chose. This was publicly predicted by several observers outside of Nissan. While Nissan strongly denied the heat would be a problem in Phoenix, it has turned out to be quite a significant one.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

Valdemar
Posts: 2665
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:03 pm

palmermd wrote:
Valdemar wrote: Can you elaborate please? The fact that only a fraction of AZ users, including ones that followed "long battery life" recommendations, experienced catastrophic battery capacity may well point into that direction.
How do you explain that all the bad batteries ended up in Arizona when vin numbers are not sequential and there are vin's outside AZ that are working just fine that should have been in the same "batch"?
Do we know if sequentiality of VIN numbers has anything to do with the order in which batteries are made?

LEAFfan
Posts: 4828
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 1855
Location: Phoenix Area

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:03 pm

Valdemar wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Valdemar wrote:Oh boy, this thread has definitely beaten all records by the amount of speculation contained. Just to throw one more into the mix, does anyone think that all these issues may be related to a bad batch of batteries?
no
Can you elaborate please? The fact that only a fraction of AZ users, including ones that followed "long battery life" recommendations, experienced catastrophic battery capacity may well point into that direction.
If you're talking about the 2-3 capacity bar losses as "catastrophic", we really have no idea how many are really out there out of the 400 cars in AZ. Until this problem is corrected, there will be many more. Even new cars now that have been sitting on the car lots in AZ have lost capacity, so it isn't really a fact that it is just a fraction of AZ users. Only Nissan knows how many actual 2-3 bar losers there are from the ones that have had their yearly check. Some have lost a capacity bar after only 7 months and around 10-12K miles.
2013 LEAF SV Del. 2/28/13
2013 LEAF World Record for Most Miles Driven On One Charge-188 miles/8.8 m/kW h
4.8 kW DC PV ($ .91/W fully installed)/ Dec., 2010

Valdemar
Posts: 2665
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:05 pm

RegGuheert wrote:
Valdemar wrote:Can you elaborate please?
The batteries in the LEAFs in AZ are losing capacity in precisely the manner expected for the chemistry that Nissan chose. This was publicly predicted by several observers outside of Nissan. While Nissan strongly denied the heat would be a problem in Phoenix, it has turned out to be quite a significant one.
How many Leafs are there in Phoenix? Are all of them affected to a comparable extent?

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15067
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:06 pm

it would be a bit unlikely to have a defective battery pack that covers 12 months of deliveries. after all, we seem to have a fairly consistent level of degradation from people who got their LEAF in Jan 2011 along with people who received their LEAF in Oct 2011.

i will say; i am in the camp that feels that Nissan has full prior knowledge of the heat issues for AZ and have already taken steps to rectify the issue in the 2013 MY along with addressing current 2012 and 2011 MY owners when US production begins
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 13,705 mi, 93.41% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LEAFfan
Posts: 4828
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 1855
Location: Phoenix Area

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:10 pm

Valdemar wrote:
RegGuheert wrote:
Valdemar wrote:Can you elaborate please?
The batteries in the LEAFs in AZ are losing capacity in precisely the manner expected for the chemistry that Nissan chose. This was publicly predicted by several observers outside of Nissan. While Nissan strongly denied the heat would be a problem in Phoenix, it has turned out to be quite a significant one.
How many Leafs are there in Phoenix? Are all of them affected to a comparable extent?
Just subtract the ones in Tucson from 400 which is supposed to be the total in AZ and you would be close. Maybe Tucson has 50-100 which would leave the Phoenix area with 300-350.
2013 LEAF SV Del. 2/28/13
2013 LEAF World Record for Most Miles Driven On One Charge-188 miles/8.8 m/kW h
4.8 kW DC PV ($ .91/W fully installed)/ Dec., 2010

Valdemar
Posts: 2665
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:10 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:it would be a bit unlikely to have a defective battery pack that covers 12 months of deliveries. after all, we seem to have a fairly consistent level of degradation from people who got their LEAF in Jan 2011 along with people who received their LEAF in Oct 2011.

i will say; i am in the camp that feels that Nissan has full prior knowledge of the heat issues for AZ and have already taken steps to rectify the issue in the 2013 MY along with addressing current 2012 and 2011 MY owners when US production begins
That would have been a suicidal move on their part to knowingly sell vehicles with problems in this emerging market. Which is not to say this didn't happen.

Return to “Problems / Troubleshooting”