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keydiver
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Leaf Number: 16484
Location: Hobe Sound, Florida
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:10 am

Tajim wrote:I am very concerned about this issue. I live in South Florida. After reading these post I have to imagine that it is a matter of time (soon) that I will have the same loss as everybody else.
Don't overreact, yet. There's a big difference between our temperatures in South Florida and Pheonix. Hopefully these problems will get all hashed out before anyone here in Florida has to deal with it. To be safe, just avoid charging to 100% when not necessary, don't leave the car sit for a long time at 100% charge, and try to minimize the time the car sits over hot black asphalt. The only change I've really made is using a Stop Time only timer for the weekends when I charge to 100%, so the car only sits for an hour or so at 100% before I leave.
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Herm
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:15 am

drees wrote: A "cycle" doesn't mean anything here unless you are taking it from 100% to turtle. Partial cycles just don't directly relate. It could take 4 50% cycles to equal the wear of 1 100% cycle. It could take 2 70% cycles to equal 1 100% cycle.
You are right, a cycle from 100% down to 40% is not the same as a cycle from 80% down to 20%, in terms of battery wear.

The USABC long-term goals for EV batteries call for 1,000 cycles at 80% DOD and 10 years.. Nissan cycles are 92% from full charge down to turtle, or 78% from full charge to VLBW.. or a 63% cycle from an 80% charge to VLBW. The last one matches what the Volt does at all times.

The full charge down to turtle is an abusive cycle.
Last edited by Herm on Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

Weatherman
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Leaf Number: 20922
Location: Weston, Florida

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:26 am

keydiver wrote:
Tajim wrote:I am very concerned about this issue. I live in South Florida. After reading these post I have to imagine that it is a matter of time (soon) that I will have the same loss as everybody else.
Don't overreact, yet. There's a big difference between our temperatures in South Florida and Phoenix.
Agreed. Contrary to something I recently read, South Florida does not have a hot, harsh climate. In fact, where I'm at right now it's cloudy, raining and 82 degrees. Pretty typical summer weather.

If you like the LEAF and are willing to do a little "battery temperature management" of your own, I'd suggest the following:

1) Park the car outside at night. If you have an enclosed garage, it can be as much as 10 degrees warmer overnight in the garage than it is outside.
2) Park in the shade during the day, or, at least in a location that gets some shade during the day.
3) Buy and use a HeatShield for your windshield. It's amazing how much cooler the car's cabin is when most of the sunlight is reflected away.
4) Only charge your battery during the early morning hours when it's "cool".
5) If you don't drive a long distance in a typical day, don't even charge to 80%. I drive about 35 miles a day, and I charge to 67% (8 bars). It requires manual intervention, of course. I still have two bars left at the end of the day.
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DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14946
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:37 am

TickTock wrote:Curious. My new 100% charge did reach a higher gid count by 6% (now 231 vs 217 before) however, I still drew almost exactly the same charge from the wall for a turtle to 100% charge (20.8kWh). I'll check if the logs offer any explanation later today. Still 12 capacity bars.
well that is more than the 13% degradation Nissan claimed you had. you should only have 11 capacity bars
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TonyWilliams
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:51 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
well, i think if they had replaced any modules, they would have mentioned it.
I think just the opposite. Since they, quite obviously, know this could REALLY blow up for them, Nissan isn't likely to share anything with us. The only way you might see that data is through "discovery" or "deposition", if it doesn't mysteriously get lost.

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RegGuheert
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Location: Northern VA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:52 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
TickTock wrote:Curious. My new 100% charge did reach a higher gid count by 6% (now 231 vs 217 before) however, I still drew almost exactly the same charge from the wall for a turtle to 100% charge (20.8kWh). I'll check if the logs offer any explanation later today. Still 12 capacity bars.
well that is more than the 13% degradation Nissan claimed you had. you should only have 11 capacity bars
The first time TickTock lost his 12th bar he was at ~228. Turbo2ltr lost his at 231. It should disappear anytime now unless Nissan has changed something.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
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Alric
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:55 am

Given the degradation issues I wonder why chargers are not voltage variable. It seems a lot of heat comes from pushing with higher voltage by the L2. Most people would charge overnight and the charge could be spread over a longer time period.

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RegGuheert
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:58 am

shrink wrote:Opposum/azdre's car and Scott's car were presumably subject to the same conditions and testing.
I do not make that presumption. For all we know they may have applied six different "band-aid solutions" to each of the six cars and they are watching to see which one is best received. One of the cars may have been a control to which they did nothing.

I'm wondering, did anyone "watch" their car via CarWings while it was in Casa Grande to see what might be happening with it?
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

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RegGuheert
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:01 am

Alric wrote:Given the degradation issues I wonder why chargers are not voltage variable. It seems a lot of heat comes from pushing with higher voltage by the L2. Most people would charge overnight and the charge could be spread over a longer time period.
I'm sure the charger in the LEAF is capable of charging at a wide range of currents, it does not need a voltage-variable supply to do this. Nissan can program the charger to operate at whatever rate they choose. But it's always somewhat of a trade off between convenience and battery life.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

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TomT
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:02 am

I don't believe this is going to make any appreciable difference since the Leaf's battery pack is sealed and beneath the car, outside of the cabin environment. Thus, cabin temperatures will not have any noticable influence on battery temps.
Weatherman wrote:3) Buy and use a HeatShield for your windshield. It's amazing how much cooler the car's cabin is when most of the sunlight is reflected away.
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