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TickTock
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Location: Queen Creek, Arizona
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:14 am

RegGuheert wrote:
shrink wrote:Opposum/azdre's car and Scott's car were presumably subject to the same conditions and testing.
I do not make that presumption. For all we know they may have applied six different "band-aid solutions" to each of the six cars and they are watching to see which one is best received. One of the cars may have been a control to which they did nothing.

I'm wondering, did anyone "watch" their car via CarWings while it was in Casa Grande to see what might be happening with it?
I tried to watch with the app, but there was no communication with the car within a few days of reception. Presumably the battery was out (since they found my temperature logger I had stuck between the battery and the heat shield - it came back in my glove box). CarWings has not recieved an update from my car since 6/6/12 (even though I do accept) so no help there but I expect they did a test drive or two immediately, then dropped the battery for more inspection.

ALLWATZ
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Leaf Number: 6877
Location: Palm Springs area

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:16 am

This is what may happen to those of us with capacity issues, http://www.autosafety.org/secret-warranties" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Good thing most early tech adopters are vocal also. Please make sure and read what it states under Conclusions.

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:22 am

TickTock wrote:
RegGuheert wrote:
shrink wrote:Opposum/azdre's car and Scott's car were presumably subject to the same conditions and testing.
I do not make that presumption. For all we know they may have applied six different "band-aid solutions" to each of the six cars and they are watching to see which one is best received. One of the cars may have been a control to which they did nothing.

I'm wondering, did anyone "watch" their car via CarWings while it was in Casa Grande to see what might be happening with it?
I tried to watch with the app, but there was no communication with the car within a few days of reception. Presumably the battery was out (since they found my temperature logger I had stuck between the battery and the heat shield - it came back in my glove box). CarWings has not recieved an update from my car since 6/6/12 (even though I do accept) so no help there but I expect they did a test drive or two immediately, then dropped the battery for more inspection.
no notice of odometer changes?
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 2640.9 mi, 99.37% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14384
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:24 am

dsh wrote:New article on Battery Degredation and what Nissan is(should) be doing about it:

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/arizo ... 46508.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The 2013 model Nissan Leaf is expected to feature an improved battery pack, and it may be offered as a no cost swap, under warranty for the owners who have reported problems, as well as a stand-alone upgrade for cars without the problem.
wondering...
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 2640.9 mi, 99.37% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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TonyWilliams
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:31 am

ALLWATZ wrote:This is what may happen to those of us with capacity issues, http://www.autosafety.org/secret-warranties" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Good thing most early tech adopters are vocal also. Please make sure and read what it states under Conclusions.

Small Claims Court
Manufacturers often stonewall the consumer over secret warranties knowing that many consumers will give up in utter frustration and go away mad. Don't. Take the documentation on the secret warranty and your repair efforts to small claims court. At this point, it's the manufacturer who often gives up knowing that the legal rights are on the consumer's side. The manufacturer relies on its own complaint handling mechanism to wear down consumers. once you show you won't be beat by the manufacturer's complaint handling mechanism, you should succeed. The manufacturer will finally recognize its responsibility for the defect in your car and reimburse you.

Conclusion
The squeaky wheel gets the grease. The consumers who complain the loudest get reimbursed under secret warranties. The good customer who goes away quietly gets ripped off. Until auto companies wake up and realize that consumer protection is good business, consumers have to be aggressive or they will wind up paying for an auto company's mistake. Since billions of dollars in repairs are covered by secret warranties, the total benefit to consumers in exercising their rights is enormous.

ALLWATZ
Posts: 92
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:36 am

TonyWilliams wrote:
ALLWATZ wrote:This is what may happen to those of us with capacity issues, http://www.autosafety.org/secret-warranties" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Good thing most early tech adopters are vocal also. Please make sure and read what it states under Conclusions.

Small Claims Court
Manufacturers often stonewall the consumer over secret warranties knowing that many consumers will give up in utter frustration and go away mad. Don't. Take the documentation on the secret warranty and your repair efforts to small claims court. At this point, it's the manufacturer who often gives up knowing that the legal rights are on the consumer's side. The manufacturer relies on its own complaint handling mechanism to wear down consumers. once you show you won't be beat by the manufacturer's complaint handling mechanism, you should succeed. The manufacturer will finally recognize its responsibility for the defect in your car and reimburse you.

Conclusion
The squeaky wheel gets the grease. The consumers who complain the loudest get reimbursed under secret warranties. The good customer who goes away quietly gets ripped off. Until auto companies wake up and realize that consumer protection is good business, consumers have to be aggressive or they will wind up paying for an auto company's mistake. Since billions of dollars in repairs are covered by secret warranties, the total benefit to consumers in exercising their rights is enormous.
Does anyone think it would be a good idea to start a new post (probably next to the battery/11 bar lost post) to consolidate all of the possible web sites to file a complaint with? This way people with battery issues and looking at the "lost bar post" wouldn't have to go back and look through hundreds of pages to find someone to complain to.

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TonyWilliams
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:43 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
dsh wrote:New article on Battery Degredation and what Nissan is(should) be doing about it:

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/arizo ... 46508.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The 2013 model Nissan Leaf is expected to feature an improved battery pack, and it may be offered as a no cost swap, under warranty for the owners who have reported problems, as well as a stand-alone upgrade for cars without the problem.
wondering...
Ya, the only place this nugget could have come from is Nissan. I personally think there will be no "improved" battery for 2013 (well, sure, improved like "clean" coal... all marketing). I also think this is a clever plant by Nissan in some interview, or just unfounded, pure speculation by the author. Why would they need to improve the battery when everything is "normal"?

What a great way to shut up the squeaky wheels!!!! "Hey, honey, I was thinking about joining the class action lawsuit against Nissan, but now that they're going to do this, I'll just sit back and do nothing."

One year later, four capacity bars gone, and can't complete the mission it was purchased to do, and resale is in the toilet; "Honey, I don't think Nissan was completely honest with us. Let's reward them by buying another Nissan product to replace this faulty one (or reward them by paying huge bucks to replace the battery)."

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RegGuheert
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:52 am

TickTock wrote:I tried to watch with the app, but there was no communication with the car within a few days of reception.
O.K. Thanks! Yeah, as soon as they unhooked the 12-V battery you would lose communication.
TickTock wrote:Presumably the battery was out (since they found my temperature logger I had stuck between the battery and the heat shield - it came back in my glove box).
Now they know the REAL reason for your capacity loss! :twisted:
TickTock wrote:CarWings has not recieved an update from my car since 6/6/12 (even though I do accept) so no help there but I expect they did a test drive or two immediately, then dropped the battery for more inspection.
Have you checked the settings in NTB11-101? That fixed it for me (even though the data is still wrong)!

In case you do not have that bulletin, here is a link to my summary.
Last edited by RegGuheert on Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

GaslessInSeattle
Posts: 1566
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Delivery Date: 29 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 850

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:54 am

ALLWATZ wrote: Does anyone think it would be a good idea to start a new post (probably next to the battery/11 bar lost post) to consolidate all of the possible web sites to file a complaint with? This way people with battery issues and looking at the "lost bar post" wouldn't have to go back and look through hundreds of pages to find someone to complain to.
while I'm sure I'm not the only one who would love for all this to magically go away, the whole capacity loss issue deserves a dedicated sub forum with different threads for each focus. As mentioned above, trying to keep it all in one giant thread makes it hard for folks to locate relevant and timely information. As depressing as it is, I don't think there is any way around the fact that this is topic number one for the forum and will be for quite some time to come, at least until Nissan responds in an satisfactory manner or the Leaf dies a slow and painful death.
Gasless: Silver 2012 SL, traded in for Lease on 1/13
Tesla S P85, Gray, pano, carbon fiber, took delivery: 2-9-13... LOVE this car!
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Cheezmo
Posts: 359
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Leaf Number: 9084
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:05 am

RegGuheert wrote:
Cheezmo wrote:Measuring battery degradation on the Volt is actually easier than on the Leaf.

The Volt reports how many kWh used since last full charge. Run until the engine comes on and you get a precise measure of how many kWh the battery produced for you. If that starts dropping people will see and report it.
How much variation do you see from owner to owner and from drive to drive? Are the results closely grouped around 10.5 kWh or is there a wide variation?
Yes, people report numbers in the 10-10.6 range. The big thing now is seeing how much more they are getting out of the 2013 model. I think I've seen some 10.9's.

I'll run down mine for the first time tomorrow so I'll see what I get.
Steve Martin
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Black 2014 Volt - Blink EVSE
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