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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:31 pm
by vrwl
Weatherman wrote:My suggestion, for those concerned about the life of their LEAF's battery, is to think of it this way:
  1. If you almost always see five bars or less on the battery temperature gage, and it only gets up to six bars a handful of times each summer...
    Don't worry about it.
  2. If you see five bars or less during the winter half of the year and, fairly often, see six bars during the summer half...
    You, probably, are going to see the quoted loss (20% loss at 5 and 30% loss at 10).
  3. If seeing six bars is common for a large part of the year and an, occasional, seventh bar pops up during the summer months...
    Don't consider buying.
  4. If you spend a large part of the summer with seven temperature bars, or more, showing...
    It's, probably, best to stay away completely
The problem is.... if you're seeing either 6 or 7 bars, you already own or are leasing the car and you're essentially screwed. :shock:

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:03 pm
by GRA
vrwl wrote:
Weatherman wrote:My suggestion, for those concerned about the life of their LEAF's battery, is to think of it this way:
  1. If you almost always see five bars or less on the battery temperature gage, and it only gets up to six bars a handful of times each summer...
    Don't worry about it.
  2. If you see five bars or less during the winter half of the year and, fairly often, see six bars during the summer half...
    You, probably, are going to see the quoted loss (20% loss at 5 and 30% loss at 10).
  3. If seeing six bars is common for a large part of the year and an, occasional, seventh bar pops up during the summer months...
    Don't consider buying.
  4. If you spend a large part of the summer with seven temperature bars, or more, showing...
    It's, probably, best to stay away completely
The problem is.... if you're seeing either 6 or 7 bars, you already own or are leasing the car and you're essentially screwed. :shock:
True, but it's possible to read owner accounts from your area and assume that your battery temp results will be similar. Granted, that doesn't help the people who've already bought, but Weatherman's summary is the best I've seen of suggested practice based on easily available information, given our current state of knowledge. And if Nissan does offer a convert-purchase-to-lease option, or if owners are considering whether to bail, this is useful info to include in their decision.

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:05 pm
by vrwl
GRA wrote:True, but it's possible to read owner accounts from your area and assume that your battery temp results will be similar. Granted, that doesn't help the people who've already bought, but Weatherman's summary is the best I've seen of suggested practice based on easily available information, given our current state of knowledge. And if Nissan does offer a convert-purchase-to- lease option, or if owners are considering whether to bail, this is useful info to include in their decision.
I agree, I was just inserting some well-intentioned humor into the equation. :)

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:20 pm
by DaveinOlyWA
vrwl wrote:
Weatherman wrote:My suggestion, for those concerned about the life of their LEAF's battery, is to think of it this way:
  1. If you almost always see five bars or less on the battery temperature gage, and it only gets up to six bars a handful of times each summer...
    Don't worry about it.
  2. If you see five bars or less during the winter half of the year and, fairly often, see six bars during the summer half...
    You, probably, are going to see the quoted loss (20% loss at 5 and 30% loss at 10).
  3. If seeing six bars is common for a large part of the year and an, occasional, seventh bar pops up during the summer months...
    Don't consider buying.
  4. If you spend a large part of the summer with seven temperature bars, or more, showing...
    It's, probably, best to stay away completely
The problem is.... if you're seeing either 6 or 7 bars, you already own or are leasing the car and you're essentially screwed. :shock:

i "think" the 6 bar concern is overblowned a bit. granted last summer was mild and this summer was late in coming but 6 bars is pretty normal even for here. (but does coincide with my first signs of degradation)

when temps were in mid 80's i frequently got up with 6 bars already there so not sure i can say it contributes a significant amount. the 7th i am sure is where the damage starts to accelerate

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:04 pm
by Weatherman
I just hate to see anyone who lives in a location where their yearly temperature profile looks like this:


http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/climate/yeardis ... endar+Year" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or this:


http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/climate/yeardis ... endar+Year" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Or, even better, like this:


http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/climate/yeardis ... endar+Year" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



be too concerned.


I'm not going to be an apologist for Nissan and say the LEAF is perfectly fine without a TMS for the battery, but it's easy to read all the unfortunate stories from southern Arizona and Texas LEAF owners and think the same thing might happen to your car as soon as the temperature peaks up above 90.

It isn't.

The kind of sustained heat that occurs in southern Arizona and Texas is a completely different animal to the few warm days a year that occur in the Pacific Northwest.

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:20 pm
by Stoaty
Weatherman wrote:I just hate to see anyone who lives in a location where their yearly temperature profile looks like this:

http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/climate/yeardis ... endar+Year" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Great info! How do you search for other cities? I couldn't figure out how to do it on the web site.

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:36 pm
by Weatherman
Unfortunately, not all National Weather Service field offices provide this information.

But, for Southern California residents, you can see the yearly plots here (for LA county and northwest):

http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/climate/yeardis ... rly+Charts" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


And for Orange County, and south and east of there.

http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/climate/yeardis ... r&stn=KSNA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


I might be able to find plots for other locations Just let me know where.

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:48 pm
by Tajim
planet4ever wrote:Note: Following quote is edited and severely trimmed.
Weatherman wrote:My suggestion, for those concerned about the life of their LEAF's battery, is to think of it this way:
  1. If you almost always see five bars or less on the battery temperature gage, and it only gets up to six bars a handful of times each summer...
    Don't worry about it.
  2. If you see five bars or less during the winter half of the year and, fairly often, see six bars during the summer half...
    You, probably, are going to see the quoted loss (20% loss at 5 and 30% loss at 10).
  3. If seeing six bars is common for a large part of the year and an, occasional, seventh bar pops up during the summer months...
    Don't consider buying.
  4. If you spend a large part of the summer with seven temperature bars, or more, showing...
    It's, probably, best to stay away completely
Well put, Weatherman. I fall in your group 2, I love my car, and I expect that it will continue to satisfy my needs for a number of years.

Ray
My Temp bars are always on six bars. In fact, I have never seen anything else in summer or winter in Florida. No capacity loss yet. Could happen any time. :shock:

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:53 pm
by Stoaty
Weatherman wrote:I might be able to find plots for other locations Just let me know where.
I would be interested to see other areas of San Fernando Valley (Canoga Park, CA) if available.

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:57 pm
by Nubo
dsh wrote:One thing I failed to mention, was when speaking to the technician who checked out my LEAF, he mentioned Air conditioning takes it's power directly from the Li-Ion Pack Battery...Does anybody think there is a correlation between battery degredation and LEAF owners who who use the air conditioning every day in the Summer in addition to the the hot air surrounding the battery pack. Sounds like the more strain you put on the Battery pack i.e. A/C and other environmental conditions will cause the battery to get weaker faster...just a thought.
If the energy info screen can be believed, the AC never seems to use more than 200-300 watts. I'm sure that might be more in AZ at peak time, but still seems to be just a couple percent compared to the electric motor load.