Weatherman
Posts: 916
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:03 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jul 2012
Leaf Number: 20922
Location: Weston, Florida

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:01 pm

Stoaty wrote:
Weatherman wrote:I might be able to find plots for other locations Just let me know where.
I would be interested to see other areas of San Fernando Valley (Canoga Park, CA) if available.
There's a pulldown menu in the upper left hand corner of the page for LA County and northwest locations (the first link I provided). Van Nuys would be a pretty representative location for the central and western part of the San Fernando Valley.
2013 Crystal Red Volt
2012 SV Glacier Pearl LEAF; turned in 5/12/2015:18.6K Miles:50.13 AHr:10 bars, 24% gone

Weatherman
Posts: 916
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:03 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jul 2012
Leaf Number: 20922
Location: Weston, Florida

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:09 pm

Tajim wrote:
planet4ever wrote:Note: Following quote is edited and severely trimmed.
Weatherman wrote:My suggestion, for those concerned about the life of their LEAF's battery, is to think of it this way:
  1. If you almost always see five bars or less on the battery temperature gage, and it only gets up to six bars a handful of times each summer...
    Don't worry about it.
  2. If you see five bars or less during the winter half of the year and, fairly often, see six bars during the summer half...
    You, probably, are going to see the quoted loss (20% loss at 5 and 30% loss at 10).
  3. If seeing six bars is common for a large part of the year and an, occasional, seventh bar pops up during the summer months...
    Don't consider buying.
  4. If you spend a large part of the summer with seven temperature bars, or more, showing...
    It's, probably, best to stay away completely
Well put, Weatherman. I fall in your group 2, I love my car, and I expect that it will continue to satisfy my needs for a number of years.

Ray
My Temp bars are always on six bars. In fact, I have never seen anything else in summer or winter in Florida. No capacity loss yet. Could happen any time. :shock:
I suspect that most of the southeast U.S would fall into the third category. I see six bars nearly all year, also, and I have no idea whether that's ok, or that's bad. I guess we'll find out sometime toward the middle of next year.
2013 Crystal Red Volt
2012 SV Glacier Pearl LEAF; turned in 5/12/2015:18.6K Miles:50.13 AHr:10 bars, 24% gone

LEAFfan
Posts: 4828
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 1855
Location: Phoenix Area

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:34 pm

planet4ever wrote:
LEAFfan wrote:Since the battery warranty DOES cover any capacity loss that isn't "gradual", any intelligent person knows that a 15% or higher loss in about a year isn't gradual.
I'm sorry, LEAFfan, but that is flat wrong. Intelligent English-speaking people should know that "gradual" is not a synonym for "slow". Nissan's lawyers, and any judge hearing a case, will certainly know that. What is covered is sudden capacity loss, not gradual loss. Gradual means a little bit at a time. If you lose a bit of capacity each week, that's gradual, even if that is 0.3% per week. And, yes 0.3%/week adds up to more than 15%/year.
But I don think your complaints will get very far in the court system.
Ray
Ray, my post has no mention of court action. Please don't assume or infer that I did. You do know what happens when you do that. ;)
2013 LEAF SV Del. 2/28/13
2013 LEAF World Record for Most Miles Driven On One Charge-188 miles/8.8 m/kW h
4.8 kW DC PV ($ .91/W fully installed)/ Dec., 2010

leafwing
Posts: 148
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:47 pm
Delivery Date: 24 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 0573
Location: Plano, TX

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:48 pm

vrwl wrote:
Weatherman wrote:My suggestion, for those concerned about the life of their LEAF's battery, is to think of it this way:
  1. If you almost always see five bars or less on the battery temperature gage, and it only gets up to six bars a handful of times each summer...
    Don't worry about it.
  2. If you see five bars or less during the winter half of the year and, fairly often, see six bars during the summer half...
    You, probably, are going to see the quoted loss (20% loss at 5 and 30% loss at 10).
  3. If seeing six bars is common for a large part of the year and an, occasional, seventh bar pops up during the summer months...
    Don't consider buying.
  4. If you spend a large part of the summer with seven temperature bars, or more, showing...
    It's, probably, best to stay away completely
The problem is.... if you're seeing either 6 or 7 bars, you already own or are leasing the car and you're essentially screwed. :shock:
+1 :lol: He should have posted his conclusions two years ago.
Lost the first capacity bar on 7/04/2012.
Lost the second bar on 6/26/2013.
Lost the third bar on 6/17/2014.
Lost the Fourth Capacity bar on 6/7/2015.

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 6419
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:59 pm

palmermd wrote:
edatoakrun wrote: I've asked several times, of those that have access to this source, that they please post this entire table (?) and any associated text.

Please add this info to the Wiki, when it is available.
Everyone has access... http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=7570" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; but it is a $20 subscription. Worth every penny if you want to know about the vehicle. I suggest you get a copy for yourself.
Actually, that table is no longer available in the service manual. It was apparently in the original version, but it has been removed and is not found in the current version.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

User avatar
TonyWilliams
Posts: 10091
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:05 pm

RegGuheert wrote:Actually, that table is no longer available in the service manual. It was apparently in the original version, but it has been removed and is not found in the current version.
A service manual that doesn't include basic information about the temperature of the battery; specifically removed why?

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 6419
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:14 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:
RegGuheert wrote:Actually, that table is no longer available in the service manual. It was apparently in the original version, but it has been removed and is not found in the current version.
A service manual that doesn't include basic information about the temperature of the battery; specifically removed why?
I wasn't referring to the section on the temperature bars, but rather the section on the capacity bars. While the table on the temperature bars is now different the table showing the values of the capacity bars is now completely gone. Why? I certainly don't know.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

DarkStar
Posts: 2066
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:06 am
Delivery Date: 25 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 568
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon, USA
Contact: Website

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:49 pm

RegGuheert wrote:
palmermd wrote:
edatoakrun wrote: I've asked several times, of those that have access to this source, that they please post this entire table (?) and any associated text.

Please add this info to the Wiki, when it is available.
Everyone has access... http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=7570" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; but it is a $20 subscription. Worth every penny if you want to know about the vehicle. I suggest you get a copy for yourself.
Actually, that table is no longer available in the service manual. It was apparently in the original version, but it has been removed and is not found in the current version.
So with the software update back in April (?), we now have no idea what these bars actually reflect. Interesting...
Mikiko (2011 Nissan LEAF ETEC) Status:
Reserved: 04/20/10 | Ordered: 10/01/10 | EV Project Blink Installed: 03/22/11 | Delivered: 03/25/11 | VIN: 568

Oregon Electric Vehicle Association | Electric Auto Association

DoxyLover
Posts: 517
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:52 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Oct 2011
Leaf Number: 9214
Location: San Jose, CA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:27 pm

Nubo wrote:
dsh wrote:One thing I failed to mention, was when speaking to the technician who checked out my LEAF, he mentioned Air conditioning takes it's power directly from the Li-Ion Pack Battery...Does anybody think there is a correlation between battery degredation and LEAF owners who who use the air conditioning every day in the Summer in addition to the the hot air surrounding the battery pack. Sounds like the more strain you put on the Battery pack i.e. A/C and other environmental conditions will cause the battery to get weaker faster...just a thought.
If the energy info screen can be believed, the AC never seems to use more than 200-300 watts. I'm sure that might be more in AZ at peak time, but still seems to be just a couple percent compared to the electric motor load.
AFAIK, the AC compressor does run off the HV.

Actually, under 90F+ conditions, I've seen the CC energy gauge hit 1500W for a few minutes when everything is still hot and run about 500W continuous. Cooler temps, I agree that 300W is common.
2011 Brilliant Silver Leaf SL
Reserved, quoted and ordered July 11, 2011
Delivered October 16, 2011 (Na. Plug-In Day)

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 6419
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:32 am

DarkStar wrote:So with the software update back in April (?), we now have no idea what these bars actually reflect. Interesting...
Actually, the service manual was revised with these changes in April 2011.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

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