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vrwl
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Leaf Number: 8597
Location: Northeastern PA/Poconos

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:57 am

sub3marathonman wrote:OK, I'm not saying there isn't a problem, and I'm not sure if anywhere in the previous 290 pages this has been addressed, but in the Owner's Manual it states, on page 2-9, "When the Li-ion battery becomes warmer, less segments on the Li-ion battery available charge gauge illuminate because the remaining energy is a lower percentage of the Li-ion's battery's capability of storing power.". So the way the manual sounds, people in the high heat areas aren't losing capacity, they are gaining potential capacity? And it also sounds like even with the higher potential capacity, the LEAF only will charge to fill a normal potential capacity battery.

One other question then is are lost capacity bars the best way to be studying the problem?

One other observation about point #18 is that OrientExpress did provide some data, that his car is apparently functioning without any problems. And I keep thinking that LEAFs without any apparent capacity problems need to be included in the data too.
Sub3, there's two different sets of bars on the right hand side of the dashboard that are referenced in the manual. The first set of bars are the "Available Charge" bars, they are the long bars that are reduced as you drive your car, and those are referenced in the manual on page 2-9 like you stated.

However, the missing bars that everyone is talking about are the bars that are referenced on page 2-10 of the manual, the "Battery Capacity" bars which are the very short bars located just to the right of the "Available Charge" bars. So the statement you quoted in your post was in reference to the "Available Charge" bars, not the "Battery Capacity" bars. Two different things. You can see a picture of a car with three missing capacity bars in this picture: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index. ... bars_s.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; He has an available charge of 100% (all 12 Available Charge bars are lit), but his overall Battery Capacity is down by 3 bars.
Last edited by vrwl on Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Vicki
2011 Silver SL-Mfg 8/11-Purch 6/12
34000 miles

lukati
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:02 pm

chris1howell wrote:Last night I joined the "Lost a bar" club. Here are my basics:

Location: Lancaster, Ca
Miles: 15600
Months: 14
Sorry to hear this, Chris. I am particularly sorry because it looks like your climate is substantially more benign than the Phoenix et al. hot desert climate that has claimed most of the previous capacity bars.

sub3marathonman
Posts: 309
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Delivery Date: 31 Mar 2012
Location: Bartow, FL

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:10 pm

vrwl wrote: Sub3, there's two different sets of bars on the right hand side of the dashboard that are referenced in the manual. The first set of bars are the "Available Charge" bars, they are the long bars that are reduced as you drive your car, and those are referenced in the manual on page 2-9 like you stated.

However, the missing bars that everyone is talking about are the bars that are referenced on page 2-10 of the manual, the "Battery Capacity" bars which are the very short bars located just to the right of the "Available Charge" bars. So the statement you quoted in your post was in reference to the "Available Charge" bars, not the "Battery Capacity" bars. Two different things. You can see a picture of a car with three missing capacity bars in this picture: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index. ... bars_s.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; He has an available charge of 100% (all 12 Available Charge bars are lit), but his overall Battery Capacity is down by 3 bars.
OK, thanks for the helpful clarification. I kept thinking it didn't make sense, but in the time I've had the car I've never noticed those small bars. (I just thought they were to indicate when the available charge got too low, since the bottom two are red.) I guess I should have kept reading the manual, at least through page 2-10. :oops:

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Nubo
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:18 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:the biggest issue i see is the gradient scale. they should have been made the same. having 20 something for one bar and then less than 5 for another means you essentially get no warning until its too late. iow, we are right back to idiot lights. by the time they come on its too late.
As Tony suggested previously, in the inevitable battle between the engineers and the marketeers, the marketeers prevailed too often.

This is a common approach with info gauges in automobiles these days. The manufacturers feel that giving owners real information is too problematic. It leads to questions and the undesirable situation of having to deal with people AFTER they have bought your car. So they reduce the number of questions by practicing The Mushroom Theory -- "keep 'em in the dark and feed them BS". They replace gauges with idiot lights, except people in general (and enthusiasts in particular) like gauges (real information) better. So they craft idiot lights that resemble gauges. Which will work after a fashion, as long as the idiot light "comes on" in time.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

sub3marathonman
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:14 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:
sub3marathonman wrote: people in the high heat areas aren't losing capacity, they are gaining potential capacity? And it also sounds like even with the higher potential capacity, the LEAF only will charge to fill a normal potential capacity battery.

One other question then is are lost capacity bars the best way to be studying the problem?
Honestly, I really do not believe your thoughts have merit. The lost capacity bars are explicitly identified as the method to indicate loss of capacity. So, saying otherwise suggests that Nissan made a mistake with their capacity indicator.
And, as a follow up to Nubo, what was edited out of my comment was "So the way the manual sounds." Having the bottom two in red made it even more logical that they were linked to the Available Charge bars, which take up 95% of the space there.

dsh
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:06 pm

Question: I have the vehicle set to charge only upto 80%. After the car has completed charging, when checking the LEAF website, It only lists a 75% charge. Is this due to the decreased capacity?
SL-e

DesertDenizen
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Leaf Number: 314507
Location: Tucson

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:18 pm

dsh wrote:Question: I have the vehicle set to charge only upto 80%. After the car has completed charging, when checking the LEAF website, It only lists a 75% charge. Is this due to the decreased capacity?
My Leaf at 80% charge used to show 10 SOC bars and 83% charge. Now it shows 9 SOC bars and 75% charge, so I am expecting to lose a capacity bar anytime now.
Fully charged by photo voltaic system.
Nov 9 2014 got my 2015 lease, SL. My third Leaf. Tucson AZ. 5,500 miles, 5.2 long term m/kwh. Let us see if the 'lizard' battery does better than my 2011, which lost a capacity bar at 6,771 miles.

dsh
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:48 pm

OK makes sense...I just lost 3rd Capacity Bar and now reads 75% with 9 SOC bars when I have set to 80% charge.

Thanks for the clarification.
DesertDenizen wrote:
dsh wrote:Question: I have the vehicle set to charge only upto 80%. After the car has completed charging, when checking the LEAF website, It only lists a 75% charge. Is this due to the decreased capacity?
My Leaf at 80% charge used to show 10 SOC bars and 83% charge. Now it shows 9 SOC bars and 75% charge, so I am expecting to lose a capacity bar anytime now.
SL-e

dsh
Posts: 170
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:29 pm
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:06 pm

FYI...

http://www.hybridcars.com/news/nissan-l ... 50263.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
SL-e

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surfingslovak
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:30 pm

dsh wrote:FYI...

http://www.hybridcars.com/news/nissan-l ... 50263.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Nice write-up, thanks for sharing.Image

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