Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[pchilds]

20% at 5 years is gradual, 20% at 4 months, 5% a month, is not. No traction battery that is at end of life at 2 years has gradual loss.

You are obviously falling into the English language trap that I am warning about. "Gradual" has nothing to do with how fast or slow something happens. It has to do with whether something happens all-at-once or a little bit at a time. Losing 0.2% of your battery capacity is a little bit. But if you lose 0.2% each day you drive the car, you will lose more than 5% in a month, and it would definitely be a gradual loss.

Ray

Be your logic 5% a day would be gradual loss.

[Herm]

Be your logic 5% a day would be gradual loss.

Lawyers and judges often think that way, juries can be convinced to do the same.. damn weasel words!

[JRP3]

I wish I had my tape recorder going when they sold me my extended warranty..I specificly ask if it covered the batteries and she said yes..I would not of bought the warranty if it had not coverd the batteries..

It would have been in writing in the extended warranty if it covered the battery. Did you read the extended warranty?

[edatoakrun]

The only thing you can do is a complete cycle and recharge, measuring how much energy you put in.. yes this may require 20 hours of charging on 120V and a kill-a-watt meter... or just wait for the software update.

You still have to use the mile/kwh display from the LEAF to make the calculation.

Not true, the L1 charger which has been documented to charge at 78.3% efficient ( http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=8583 ) will give you all the information you need. If you put in 20kw then the pack received 15.6kw. So for a new pack you should see 21kw into pack which should pull 26.8kW from the wall.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... start=3370" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have records of 240v 16a charge time to "80%" that I need to look at.

Phil (see link) reports Total Charge Efficiency: 90.9%.

Does anyone have observations of charge efficiency up to an "80%" charge level that differ significantly from Phil's?

If so, what was your methodology?

IIRC, many have reported efficiency in the 85%-90% range, but these often included the lower efficiency charge, from the "80% to "100%" charge level.

Ingineer

...These measurements are all using our Rev2 Upgraded EVSE:

120v: (112.6v recorded at EVSE input)
Standby Power: 1.7w
Charge Power in: 1.436kW
Power to Leaf Battery: 1.125kW
Total Power Lost: 311w
Total Charge Efficiency: 78.3%

240v: (239.8v recorded at EVSE input)
Standby Power: 3.4w
Charge Power in: 3.756kW
Power to Leaf Battery: 3.414kW
Total Power Lost: 342w
Total Charge Efficiency: 90.9%

All these measurements were with the Leaf pack at around 62 degrees F and ~65% SoC. Readings were allowed to stabilize before recording. The power to the Leaf battery was calculated by recording amperage at the cell interconnect level using a high-accuracy kelvin-connected current shunt, so the losses are a sum of all EVSE/Charger/Leaf systems. Charger input power was similarly recorded using lab-grade calibrated true RMS equipment, not a Kill-A-Watt.

These efficiency calculations do not take into account the coulombic loss in the Leaf's battery, and other Leaf systems during discharge, so this is only charging efficiency up to the battery pack itself but not including the pack, of which also has notable loss...

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=8583" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[mksE55]

All we need to convince is a jury , of your peers and most will not be happy that large corporations advertise the longevity and have commercials stating how long they expect it to last and then it fails. Simple , even If I didnt own a leaf, I would say they gave the perception repeatedly vocally, it should last 5 yr to 10 years. This would be a fail in 1 year -2 years the battery is toast. I would have no reservations finding them guilty on all accounts. Classic greedy Corporations cheating the American public every chance it gets. Go back over Automotive cases they loose most if not all the time. which is why lawyers take these cases pro bono. Even taking the GOV. money to fund the failing products. I will be joining in with suit if Nissan fails to stand behind their product. Last Nissan I will own.

[opossum]

Does anyone have any links to official Nissan videos or documents like the one above. I'm trying to gather all the ammo I can for the battle.

Azdre and I captured these two videos, in case Nissan decides to pull them down some day...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DShtvd5jJHQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/REPORTS ... 10803.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[RegGuheert]

Thanks, surfingslovak!

Transcription of this video in case it decides to disappear at some point in the future:

URL: http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DEuGU0mGWc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Title: Nissan LEAF Tour Q&A: Battery Replacement
Uploaded by: nissanusa
Upload date: January 27, 2012
Summary paragraph:

Nissan LEAF Tour Expert Kate answers a question from our Facebook Page about when the Nissan LEAFs battery will need to be replaced. For more answers to Nissan LEAF questions, visit http://www.facebook.com/NissanLEAF" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Video transcription:

(Fade from black to blue background showing the following words:)
"Nissan LEAF
drive electric tour"
(Words fade out and the following words fade in:)
"When will the LEAF
battery need to be replaced?
- Juan E."
(Switch to a scene of a blonde lady with a Nissan LEAF baseball cap standing outside with a blue Nissan LEAF seen out-of-focus in the background. She is speaking and says the following:)
"The battery pack will NOT have to be replaced after a couple years. In fact, the battery pack's supposed to last AT LEAST 10 years or 100,000 miles. Could be MUCH longer depending on how much you drive."
(Switch back to blue background showing the following words:)
"Join the conversation at
Facebook.com/NissanLEAF"
(Fade to black)

[azdre]

Nissan already pulled one of those off of their Facebook page recently. Also, I scoured the LEaF page and they have removed all references of battery life expectations.

[Stoaty]

Nissan already pulled one of those off of their Facebook page recently. Also, I scoured the LEAF page and they have removed all references of battery life expectations.

Looks like they are circling the wagons.

[azdre]

And after reading 10 official definitions of the word gradual from well-respected ( and not so respected dictionaries) there is no way in hell that 0-10 percent in one year followed by 20-30% in 3 months can be gradual.