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RegGuheert
Posts: 6419
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:43 am

JRP3 wrote:There is a fan inside ;)
JRP3 wrote:For some reason I thought there was an internal fan to even out heat distribution. Guess I dreamt that up in my head.
No, you didn't dream it up. Nissan said there was a fan once-upon-a-time, but it never materialized in the production car.
JRP3 wrote:Theoretically the "cooling" system is passive radiation from the pack to the outside air, obviously not effective in this case.
It's difficult to radiate heat to the air since air does not absorb infrared light effectively. Any radiation from the LEAF battery would be to other surfaces that surround it such as the floorboards or the plastic sheet below it, and, yes, that is pretty limited.

Most of the cooling of the LEAF battery when driving is through conduction to the unibody and conduction from both the battery and the unibody to the air. When the car is moving heat gets carried away by a form of convection due to the car moving to cooler air all the time. However, when the car is at rest, the warm air around the battery is somewhat trapped so the heat takes a long time to dissipate.

Since the LEAF battery is a net dissipater of heat, the lower temperature limit is the ambient air temperature. In reality, its average temperature will be above the ambient level. This is good when it is cold outside and bad when it is hot.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

lorax
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:36 pm
Delivery Date: 13 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 4469
Location: Gilbert, AZ

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:48 am

I did a bit of driving yesterday and took the car down to VLBW. To charge from VLWB to 100% was 16.9 KWh according to the Blink. It took about 4h 27m to charge. Assuming 85% charging efficiency, about 14.4 KWh were delivered to the battery.

Harsha
2015 LEAF SL: Lost 1st bar at 34450 mi on 9/17/2016. Delivery 11/30/2014
2012 LEAF SV
2011 LEAF SV

lorax
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:36 pm
Delivery Date: 13 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 4469
Location: Gilbert, AZ

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:40 am

I also did a QC at PADT yesterday -- GOM was at 5 miles. Charged to 80%. According to the Blink website, 12.17 KWh delivered.

Harsha
2015 LEAF SL: Lost 1st bar at 34450 mi on 9/17/2016. Delivery 11/30/2014
2012 LEAF SV
2011 LEAF SV

scottf200
Posts: 1840
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:21 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2011
Location: In my Volt VIN 01234 <actual>
Contact: Website

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:00 am

lorax wrote:I did a bit of driving yesterday and took the car down to VLBW. To charge from VLWB to 100% was 16.9 KWh according to the Blink. It took about 4h 27m to charge. Assuming 85% charging efficiency, about 14.4 KWh were delivered to the battery. Harsha
How many miles were you able to drive :?:
100K EV miles and 80% EV usage
'17 Tesla Model X 100D 'used' self | RIP '16 P90DL Sig self |
'18 Tesla Model 3 LR kid1 |
'11 Volt kid2 | '16 Volt for wife | '12 Volt kid1's spouse

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 6419
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:10 am

lorax wrote:I did a bit of driving yesterday and took the car down to VLBW. To charge from VLWB to 100% was 16.9 KWh according to the Blink. It took about 4h 27m to charge. Assuming 85% charging efficiency, about 14.4 KWh were delivered to the battery.

Harsha
Assuming an extra 1.5 kWh of energy required From the wall had you gone to turtle, that indicates you can only put in 18.4 kWh/26.1 kWh = 70.5% as much energy as a new LEAF. That is consistent with having lost three bars (66.25% to 72.5% of original capacity).

I am basing this calculation on data from this thread: Collecting data:Off-the-wall power for turtle to 100% charge

Edit: Corrected my calculation to use consistent energy numbers (now all are from the wall).
Last edited by RegGuheert on Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

edatoakrun
Posts: 5222
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:13 am

lorax wrote:I did a bit of driving yesterday and took the car down to VLBW. To charge from VLWB to 100% was 16.9 KWh according to the Blink. It took about 4h 27m to charge. Assuming 85% charging efficiency, about 14.4 KWh were delivered to the battery.

Harsha
What kWh consumption did your LEAF report for the same trip, either calculated by using nav sceen m/kWh and odometer miles, or just using (if you can) the CW kWh use report?
no condition is permanent

opossum
Posts: 153
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:40 pm
Delivery Date: 21 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 500
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:16 pm

shrink wrote:After I got home around 64-65 miles, I started driving a loop around the neighborhood. Lights every mile or so, 35-40 mph. VLBW came on 74.3 miles. I pulled into my garage at 75.4 miles. Average was 4.3 miles/kWh. Ambient temps on the LEAF display were 88F on the way down, 92F on the way back. 6 temp bars the whole time. Mileage when I pulled in was 2220.
75.4 / 4.3 = 17.5 kWh. That's lower than I would have hoped/expected for a Phx Leaf with only 2220 miles on it! :( But I hate you a little for that sort of range. At this point, I don't think our Leaf could get 75 miles going downhill... on the back of a flatbed! :mrgreen:
azdre/opossum, Phoenix, 3/21/11 purchase, 10/2/12 lemon law return.
23k miles, 3 bars lost, officially rated "normal" by Nissan

shrink
Posts: 360
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:21 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Jun 2012
Leaf Number: 21842
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:20 pm

opossum wrote: 75.4 / 4.3 = 17.5 kWh. That's lower than I would have hoped/expected for a Phx Leaf with only 2220 miles on it! :( But I hate you a little for that sort of range. At this point, I don't think our Leaf could get 75 miles going downhill... on the back of a flatbed! :mrgreen:
What? Clearly all you need to do is update that buggy software ;)
2011 LEAF (Sold) | 2012 Volt (Sold) | 2012 LEAF (Lease Ended) | 2010 Tesla Roadster #501 | 2013 Tesla Model S #9001 | 6.827 kW SunPower PV System

EatsShootsandLeafs
Posts: 635
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:59 am
Delivery Date: 24 Aug 2012

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:39 pm

Apologies for askign what must already have been asked, but this thread is gargantuan!

In this thread: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=9917" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Nissan mentions how there is no battery problem, but rather a faulty display. This certainly seems to me to be rubbish, but assuming it's not, how is it that if that is indeed the cause (buggy software) that 1) The software of the display hasn't been updated and 2) It disproportionately affects people in hot climates?

Why aren't people in New Jersey suffering from this "faulty" display?

cwerdna
Posts: 9812
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:49 pm

EatsShootsandLeafs wrote:In this thread: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=9917" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Nissan mentions how there is no battery problem, but rather a faulty display. This certainly seems to me to be rubbish, but assuming it's not, how is it that if that is indeed the cause (buggy software) that 1) The software of the display hasn't been updated and 2) It disproportionately affects people in hot climates?

Why aren't people in New Jersey suffering from this "faulty" display?
I agree the explanation seems like rubbish and we sure wish we got better communication from Nissan other than the "explanation" that someone stumbled across from Mr. Palmer. So far, neither of those has been explained, AFAIK.

It still seems like Phoenicians who had their Leafs taken to Casa Grande haven't heard back much that's of been of any use..

Hopefully Tony Williams' test in about a week goes as planned and w/o incident so we can further throw water on the claims there's no battery problem.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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