cwerdna
Posts: 9801
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

what are defectors migrating to?

Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:53 pm

For those in hot climate areas where Nissan's willing to buy back their cars, it'd be interesting to see what people are to replace their Leaf. Perhaps they should post in the "Defectors" thread (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=9903" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)?

I heard one who turned theirs in got some VW TDI. FWIW, I wouldn't buy a VW nor one of their TDIs (due to VW's generally spotty reliability and more recent HPFP problems). And "clean diesels" are pretty dirty in terms of EPA pollution score vs. PZEV certified cars. Diesels also produce more CO2 per unit of fuel burned than gasoline (http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=307&t=11" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;).

To me, good candidates might be a Prius, Camry Hybrid, Fusion Hybrid ('13 FFH gets an amazing for its size and power 47/47/47 mpg EPA rating) or PHEVs/EVs w/active thermal management (e.g. Volt, FFE (?), Tesla Model S (long wait for that), etc.)

That said, if one were to buy say a Prius in a hot climate, I wouldn't be surprised if one needs a replacement HV battery not long after the 8 year/100K mile HV battery warranty expires as we on Priuschat have tended to see a correlation between HV battery failure and high temps and/or hilly commutes. CA and CARB states get a 10 year/150K mile HV battery warranty.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

JRP3
Posts: 404
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:04 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Jun 2015
Contact: Website

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:57 pm

It would have been better if a technical fix to the car were offered to address the issues but I guess it's not available at this time, or its not cost effective, so I guess the buy back is the next best thing. Obviously Nissan needs to build a better car in the near future or the program will be in serious trouble.

DesertDenizen
Posts: 399
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:23 am
Delivery Date: 11 Sep 2014
Leaf Number: 314507
Location: Tucson

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:04 pm

JRP3 wrote:It would have been better if a technical fix to the car were offered to address the issues but I guess it's not available at this time, or its not cost effective, so I guess the buy back is the next best thing. Obviously Nissan needs to build a better car in the near future or the program will be in serious trouble.
+1

I brought my car to the dealer today, as I lost a capacity bar and the Leaf hotline said to bring it in. The Leaf hotline guy assigned to my case number said have the dealer tech call him while he was with my car. He did, and he asked the hotline guy "Do you have an answer for the loss of a capacity bar at 6,881 miles?" The hotline guy said no, and the dealer tech, (I like this guy), said "While the hell did you waste his time and tell him to come in?" You have to just shake your head.
Fully charged by photo voltaic system.
Nov 9 2014 got my 2015 lease, SL. My third Leaf. Tucson AZ. 5,500 miles, 5.2 long term m/kwh. Let us see if the 'lizard' battery does better than my 2011, which lost a capacity bar at 6,771 miles.

spooka
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:38 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Jul 2011
Leaf Number: 004917

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:34 pm

TickTock wrote:Here's my receation of the graph I think is most pertinent to all owners/buyers to decide individual course of action.
Image

To TickTock, Thanks for your insight. I am sure your meeting with Nissan and report/graph will impact this community for a long time to come. Unfortunately, we are interested in the best practical answer and Nissan is interested in the best political answer. I get it but all of this is time from our lives that we'll never get back.

Nissan - your information is frustrating.


If Nissan had shown the above chart to me the day I was buying my LEAF I would have told them NO THANKS! If they had told me I could only drive 20 miles a day round trip or I'd kill my battery pack early, I would have told them HELL NO, are you crazy?!

It's hard to respect Nissan's information (different daily commute lengths for different cities) as anything other than fodder to fit in a chart to get the result they want.

mark1313
Posts: 144
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:09 am
Delivery Date: 20 May 2011
Leaf Number: 001024
Location: Phoenix Arizona.

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:15 pm

Wow I just turned on Ch. 5 news congrats to all of you ...What a great victory ...So does everyone need to go the lemon law rout to get Nissan to buy the car back ?

dsh
Posts: 167
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:29 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 001069

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:15 pm

Yes, just saw in on channel 5 KPHO-Phoenix at 10:00pm news.

Very Interesting....reporter Heather Moore mentioned that Nissan Executive stated Nissan may 'pull' LEAFS from Arizona valley dealerships.
azdre wrote:Nissan is also going to buy our car back at standard lemon law repurchase terms. We were told of this intent (verbally only) a few days before the range test (9/11), and debated whether to say anything. We really couldn't jeopardize our chance at the buyback so we decided to keep quiet. We were very skeptical at whether they would actually follow through and were given no details at that time.

We followed the dispute resolution process as outlined in the warranty manual... to the tee. So if someone wants to know how we did it, tell them to RTFM! :-)

She gets returned on Tuesday at 9am. This will put this to an end for us, but we're still here to help anyone else get the resolution they desire. If anyone has an idea of an offset for all of the bad mojo I've given to EVs, let me know. I want them to be mainstreamed, but I'm not willing to throw $33,000 out the window for it to happen.

We'll have an update on KPHO (probably tonight @10pm). http://www.kpho.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
SL-e

EdmondLeaf
Posts: 1500
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:18 pm
Location: Edmond, OK

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:47 pm

DesertDenizen wrote:I brought my car to the dealer today, as I lost a capacity bar and the Leaf hotline said to bring it in. The Leaf hotline guy assigned to my case number said have the dealer tech call him while he was with my car. He did, and he asked the hotline guy "Do you have an answer for the loss of a capacity bar at 6,881 miles?" The hotline guy said no, and the dealer tech, (I like this guy), said "While the hell did you waste his time and tell him to come in?" You have to just shake your head.
Dennis, I thought that they will have resolution for you when you get to dealership, what a waste of your time.

opossum
Posts: 153
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:40 pm
Delivery Date: 21 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 500
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:14 pm

The 4th KPHO CBS5 news story has been posted...

http://www.kpho.com/video?clipId=7772224&autostart=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
azdre/opossum, Phoenix, 3/21/11 purchase, 10/2/12 lemon law return.
23k miles, 3 bars lost, officially rated "normal" by Nissan

User avatar
wiltingleaf
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:00 pm
Delivery Date: 02 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 003744
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Contact: Website

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:33 pm

azdre wrote:
We'll have an update on KPHO (probably tonight @10pm). http://www.kpho.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Here's a link to the video from KPHO CBS 5 story from tonight.

User avatar
DaveEV
Forum Supporter
Posts: 6239
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:51 pm
Location: San Diego

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:37 pm

TickTock wrote:Here's my receation of the graph I think is most pertinent to all owners/buyers to decide individual course of action.
Image
Great data. THIS is the type of data Nissan should be releasing to customers and potential customers to give them the information they need to make an informed decision on whether or not the car will work for them.

Some interesting data about Boston vs Phoenix weather:

Boston average max temp barely gets over 80F in July. Year round, Phoenix's max temp is over 20F hotter than Boston - min temps are around 15F hotter. weather.com estimates that Phoenix is about 22F hotter on average - thats around 15C hotter which indicates that a Phoenix battery should age well over twice as fast under the same usage patterns thanks toe Arrhenious Equation. This assumption appears to match up well with the chart given that the Boston plot is run with more miles than the Phoenix plot. Comparing Boston to Seattle - Seattle has even lower max summer temps - especially min summer temps. I'd guess that Seattle will beat out Boston in terms of calendar life, but it probably wouldn't be significant unless you park your car outside at night in Seattle.

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