EVDrive
Posts: 514
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:21 pm
Delivery Date: 21 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 776
Location: SF Bay Area, Ca

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:54 pm

opossum wrote:The 4th KPHO CBS5 news story has been posted...

http://www.kpho.com/video?clipId=7772224&autostart=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Wow what a mess. I don't think they should sell the v1 leaf in Phoenix. Too damn hot and the Leaf can't stand the heat. Until they offer a hot weather package at least. I wouldn't buy one in a hot climate knowing what we know now.

Mine still works great and seems to have about 90% the original range after 20k miles but I'm in a moderate climate. I can go 75 miles when I hyper mile but it is not fun to go 55 on the freeway to do that. Nissan needs to offer at least 115 miles of EPA range so after a few years we could still go 100 miles. I still can't believe Nissan didn't offer a bigger battery and battery cooling. 2 big mistakes followed by another big mistake of not admitting they made any mistakes.

I really want Nissan to succeed and they should be given credit for launching a practical EV when no other carmakers would. However, we know first generation innovative products have issues. We should have all known that was a potential going in. If there are problems fix them and move on. Don't pretend there is not an issue, that is just shooting yourself in the foot as far as credibility goes.
- SF Bay Area
- 2011 Leaf traded in at 46,000 miles, 3 years, lost 1 bar
- Upgraded to 2014 Rav4EV with Quickchargepower.com CHAdeMO port, 53,000 miles
- Tesla Model 3 reserved

pb1
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:42 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Aug 2011

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:38 am

Hopefully Nissan will do the right thing instead of letting this issue drag on by offering the replacement battery or find an alternative innovative solution to take care of the early adopters. Prolonged denial will only increase the stakes for taking a hit on their 5Billion(claimed - no ref) investment commitment to making electric cars.

WetEV
Posts: 3632
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:21 am

EVDrive wrote:Mine still works great and seems to have about 90% the original range after 20k miles but I'm in a moderate climate. I can go 75 miles when I hyper mile but it is not fun to go 55 on the freeway to do that. Nissan needs to offer at least 115 miles of EPA range so after a few years we could still go 100 miles. I still can't believe Nissan didn't offer a bigger battery and battery cooling. 2 big mistakes followed by another big mistake of not admitting they made any mistakes.
Bigger or smaller battery, and no battery cooling are not mistakes. Battery size costs money. Battery cooling costs money, energy and isn't needed most places. How the car was promoted and sold was a mistake, and once it was clear that there was a problem it was handled very badly. Range should have been understated at 70% of EPA range, not overstated. If you need 100 freeway miles often, you should be buying a car with EPA range greater than 180 miles when new. Plan on EOF at 70% of original, and do not plan on using more than 80% of the capacity more than occasionally.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

JRP3
Posts: 404
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:04 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Jun 2015
Contact: Website

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:42 am

WetEV wrote:

Bigger or smaller battery, and no battery cooling are not mistakes. Battery size costs money. Battery cooling costs money, energy and isn't needed most places. How the car was promoted and sold was a mistake, and once it was clear that there was a problem it was handled very badly. Range should have been understated at 70% of EPA range, not overstated. If you need 100 freeway miles often, you should be buying a car with EPA range greater than 180 miles when new. Plan on EOF at 70% of original, and do not plan on using more than 80% of the capacity more than occasionally.
This is key, Nissan, and all OEM's, need to clearly state the range at the low end of the scale, not the high end. However, part of the issue is that for typical US driving habits and expectations a new LEAF really does not provide enough range when capacity loss is figured in. A larger pack would mitigate this somewhat, going from a 120 mile range to a 100 mile range after a few years would be much less of a hardship for most people.

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 6419
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:44 am

WetEV wrote:Bigger or smaller battery, and no battery cooling are not mistakes. Battery size costs money. Battery cooling costs money, energy and isn't needed most places. How the car was promoted and sold was a mistake, and once it was clear that there was a problem it was handled very badly.
+1 Well said!
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

charge
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:23 pm
Delivery Date: 31 Jan 2012
Leaf Number: 17706

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:23 am

Saw TickTock's recreated chart and probablity that Leaf will get pulled from AZ and this came to mind...

Her hardest hue to hold.

Her early leaf's a flower;

But only so an hour.

Then leaf subsides to leaf,

So Eden sank to grief,

So dawn goes down to day

Nothing gold can stay.
Hope this will be me and my leaf in 10 years..."I sit in my old car, same one I've had for years
Old battery's running down, it ran for years and years"

User avatar
TickTock
Posts: 1701
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:30 pm
Delivery Date: 31 May 2011
Leaf Number: 3626
Location: Queen Creek, Arizona
Contact: Website

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:47 am

RegGuheert wrote:
WetEV wrote:Bigger or smaller battery, and no battery cooling are not mistakes. Battery size costs money. Battery cooling costs money, energy and isn't needed most places. How the car was promoted and sold was a mistake, and once it was clear that there was a problem it was handled very badly.
+1 Well said!
+2. Sums it up nicely.

Stoaty
Posts: 4490
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:50 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 3871
Location: West Los Angeles

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:08 am

TickTock wrote:
RegGuheert wrote:
WetEV wrote:Bigger or smaller battery, and no battery cooling are not mistakes. Battery size costs money. Battery cooling costs money, energy and isn't needed most places. How the car was promoted and sold was a mistake, and once it was clear that there was a problem it was handled very badly.
+1 Well said!
+2. Sums it up nicely.
+3. Nothing wrong with the Leaf in its current incarnation, it just isn't an all-weather car.
2011 Leaf with 62,000 miles given to Nephew
2013 Tesla Model S85 with 251 miles rated range at full charge
Leaf Spy Manual
Battery Aging Model Spreadsheet

grommet
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:57 am
Delivery Date: 03 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 3612
Location: Silicon Valley

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:30 am

Stoaty wrote: +3. Nothing wrong with the Leaf in its current incarnation, it just isn't an all-weather car.
I wouldn't say 'nothing is wrong' just yet. Ask me what I think in a year. My LEAF is in an "ideal" normal environment (S.F. Bay Area) and the range is down about 10% with a low 10,400 miles in 16 months. This is higher than I expected, and I pretty much baby the battery. The loss has to slow down, or I'll consider the LEAF a "cold (but not freezing) weather only car".
Last edited by grommet on Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

smkettner
Posts: 7433
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:32 am

I think the buy backs indicate the US battery will not be any different in chemistry that has additional heat tolerance.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
RAV4 traded in for I-Pace Dec 2018

Return to “Problems / Troubleshooting”