Stoaty
Posts: 4490
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:50 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 3871
Location: West Los Angeles

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:41 am

grommet wrote:I wouldn't say 'nothing is wrong' just yet. Ask me what I think in a year. My LEAF is in an "ideal" normal environment (S.F. Bay Area) and the range is down about 10% with a low 10,400 miles in 16 months. This is higher than I expected, and I pretty much baby the battery. The loss has to slow down, or I'll consider the LEAF a "cold (but not freezing) weather only car".
Range based on driving the same route in the same conditions to turtle, or by some other measurement? I am down 9% in Gids after 15 months, but the (very rough) range test I did doesn't seem to show much difference from 6 months ago. I don't think Gids are as accurate as I once thought. I am getting a lot more miles per Gid at the very low end than elsewhere. The instrumentation and/or software needs improvement to help judge more accurately how much capacity we are losing.
2011 Leaf with 62,000 miles given to Nephew
2013 Tesla Model S85 with 251 miles rated range at full charge
Leaf Spy Manual
Battery Aging Model Spreadsheet

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DaveEV
Posts: 6251
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:51 pm
Location: San Diego

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:38 am

grommet wrote:I wouldn't say 'nothing is wrong' just yet. Ask me what I think in a year. My LEAF is in an "ideal" normal environment (S.F. Bay Area) and the range is down about 10% with a low 10,400 miles in 16 months. This is higher than I expected, and I pretty much baby the battery. The loss has to slow down, or I'll consider the LEAF a "cold (but not freezing) weather only car".
From the charts that TickTock posted earlier, 10% after that period of time doesn't seem out of line. Certainly within the margin of error. Would have been nice if Nissan had told us up front that degradation would be fastest after the first year (really the first 6 months) - that certainly doesn't meet my definition of "gradual".

If the slopes in TickTock's charts hold up, you should see less than half the loss after the 2nd year compared to the first.

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TickTock
Posts: 1701
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:30 pm
Delivery Date: 31 May 2011
Leaf Number: 3626
Location: Queen Creek, Arizona
Contact: Website

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:51 am

smkettner wrote:I think the buy backs indicate the US battery will not be any different in chemistry that has additional heat tolerance.
True. I asked about the new battery and was told it is essentially the same chemistry and we shouldn't expect any change in the heat tolerance. The cost reductions Ghosn spoke of come primarily from manufacturing techniques.

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TickTock
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Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:30 pm
Delivery Date: 31 May 2011
Leaf Number: 3626
Location: Queen Creek, Arizona
Contact: Website

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:03 pm

opossum wrote:The 4th KPHO CBS5 news story has been posted...

http://www.kpho.com/video?clipId=7772224&autostart=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I hope she's wrong about Nissan considering pulling the Leaf from Phoenix. It is a GREAT car ...just not as great as we were let on. Given proper disclosure I think it is still a great choice for many Phoenix valley residents. In the end the cost of a battery replacement may still be less then what we are saving in gas (I will have saved >$7000 by the time I think I will need to replace mine).

opossum
Posts: 153
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:40 pm
Delivery Date: 21 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 500
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:29 pm

TickTock wrote:Given proper disclosure I think it is still a great choice for many Phoenix valley residents.
So... Nissan served Kool-Aid at your meeting, eh? :lol: ;)

Seriously though, I'll be very interested to see how this all plays out. I don't think Leafs in the desert will survive 3 summers (and the corresponding 2.5 years), no matter how the cars are used/treated. If someone wants to drop lots of coin on the car and only needs a 20-mile range, I guess it still may be a viable option.
azdre/opossum, Phoenix, 3/21/11 purchase, 10/2/12 lemon law return.
23k miles, 3 bars lost, officially rated "normal" by Nissan

grommet
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:57 am
Delivery Date: 03 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 3612
Location: Silicon Valley

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:32 pm

Stoaty wrote:Range based on driving the same route in the same conditions to turtle, or by some other measurement? I am down 9% in Gids after 15 months, but the (very rough) range test I did doesn't seem to show much difference from 6 months ago.
I'm GID meter free, though I guess it would be amusing to have a reading. (I didn't do a "new" reading, so I have nothing to compare it to.) Anyway, all real world route based in as similar conditions as possible.

DesertDenizen
Posts: 399
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:23 am
Delivery Date: 11 Sep 2014
Leaf Number: 314507
Location: Tucson

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:36 pm

opossum wrote:
TickTock wrote:Given proper disclosure I think it is still a great choice for many Phoenix valley residents.
So... Nissan served Kool-Aid at your meeting, eh? :lol: ;)

Seriously though, I'll be very interested to see how this all plays out. I don't think Leafs in the desert will survive 3 summers (and the corresponding 2.5 years), no matter how the cars are used/treated. If someone wants to drop lots of coin on the car and only needs a 20-mile range, I guess it still may be a viable option.
I agree. I babied my battery pack and lost a bar at 6,881 miles. I wonder if all my effort was for naught, or if I will delay my loss of a second bar by continuing my practices.
Fully charged by photo voltaic system.
Nov 9 2014 got my 2015 lease, SL. My third Leaf. Tucson AZ. 5,500 miles, 5.2 long term m/kwh. Let us see if the 'lizard' battery does better than my 2011, which lost a capacity bar at 6,771 miles.

jspearman
Posts: 244
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:04 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 5954
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:06 pm

TickTock wrote:
smkettner wrote:I think the buy backs indicate the US battery will not be any different in chemistry that has additional heat tolerance.
True. I asked about the new battery and was told it is essentially the same chemistry and we shouldn't expect any change in the heat tolerance. The cost reductions Ghosn spoke of come primarily from manufacturing techniques.
Well, that's the final piece of the puzzle I had been waiting to hear, and thank you for sharing this info. I was holding out a tiny bit of hope that either a new chemistry or a TMS would arrive to save the day, but it looks like the Leaf will not serve our needs by the end of next summer.

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TonyWilliams
Posts: 10091
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Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:14 pm

An anonymous LEAF Owner in San Diego (too closely associated with the industry to identify) has reported 1 bar loss at 29,000 miles.

San Diego, CA

No other data.

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TickTock
Posts: 1701
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:30 pm
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Location: Queen Creek, Arizona
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:14 pm

opossum wrote:
TickTock wrote:Given proper disclosure I think it is still a great choice for many Phoenix valley residents.
So... Nissan served Kool-Aid at your meeting, eh? :lol: ;)
:lol: I admit, I drank the Kool-Aid before I even got my Leaf. My enthusiams has been dampened, for sure, but I am still a fan.

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