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surfingslovak
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Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Wed May 09, 2012 4:20 pm

LEAFfan wrote:Just the heat of AZ will NOT damage the battery.
LEAFfan, I must disagree with this statement. High heat will absolutely accelerate the aging process for these batteries. If you took a car and exposed it to a the same usage pattern in Seattle and in Phoenix, all things being equal, the car in Seattle will exhibit less degradation. The NREL report Herm referenced last year showed this effect pretty clearly. Additionally, the lithium manganese battery chemistry the Leaf uses is known to be more temperature sensitive than lithium cobalt.

Now, Nissan has said that they don't need active temperature management in the US. Perhaps in Abu Dhabi or in Dubai, but not in the US. This means that they have extensively tested their batteries in hot locales, and they must have optimized the basic battery chemistry to be more resistant to heat. However, this does not imply the same rate of aging in hot and cold locales. I don't think that anyone has made that claim before.

azdre
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Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Wed May 09, 2012 4:47 pm

Ugh... I shouldn't have posted anything. Forums make me crazy. I'm going to continue on my way and will update the OP when I get a resolution so that it will be documented for posterity. Thanks for reading and contributing to this discussion.

LEAFfan
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Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Wed May 09, 2012 4:48 pm

It won't matter where you are located. If you QC more than 6 times in a day or leave it in 122 degree heat for more than 24 hours, then you have a good chance of damaging the battery, not just losing capacity. Also, leaving it at 100% charge for long periods and topping it off when it's already over 80% may damage the pack and have it lose capacity. I'll say it again, these packs were tested extensively (simulated 8yrs/100K miles) here in the extreme heat, were QCd up to six times a day, and lost no more capacity than any other kind of charging. So, unless you have other info, the below 122 degree heat here will NOT be any worse on the capacity as where you are.
2013 LEAF SV Del. 2/28/13
2013 LEAF World Record for Most Miles Driven On One Charge-188 miles/8.8 m/kW h
4.8 kW DC PV ($ .91/W fully installed)/ Dec., 2010

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surfingslovak
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Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Wed May 09, 2012 4:55 pm

LEAFfan wrote:I'll say it again, these packs were tested extensively (simulated 8yrs/100K miles) here in the extreme heat, were QCd up to six times a day, and lost no more capacity than any other kind of charging. So, unless you have other info, the below 122 degree heat here will NOT be any worse on the capacity as where you are.
Be it as it may, I find it particularly troubling that the majority of known cases of significant battery degradation occurred in Arizona. I send the OP my best wishes. Hopefully, she will be able to get this resolved, and I look forward to learning more. I'm done posting in this thread.

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TonyWilliams
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Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Wed May 09, 2012 5:25 pm

surfingslovak wrote:I'm done posting in this thread.
I hear ya! I'll make this my last post, too, as I think the OP gets the message now.

They did a lot of simulated testing for the space shuttle, and had virtually unlimited government dollars. $170 billion total.

40% were lost in accidents.

Herm
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Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Wed May 09, 2012 5:28 pm

Lets not attack Azdre.. we appreciate the report and hopefully Nissan will solve the problem.

Perhaps the solution is a small tutorial by Nissan on how to prolong battery life.. something nicely done on a DVD and mailed to each owner. Its very possible the battery was on the low end of the scale from the factory, no way to know unless you plug a GID meter into your Leaf when its new.

DurkaDurka
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Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Wed May 09, 2012 8:34 pm

* We always charge to 100% (we drive it a lot, 17,000 miles in 14 months of driving).

To me, this is not a lot of driving and I don't see a problem charging to 100%. In any case, I think the way the car is being charged has not been described (or I missed the post?). Maybe Azdre is letting her car sit at a high state of charge more often then necessary?

I set my timer so that the car charges as LATE as possible for it to be ready in the morning. I know the "END" timer is not accurate, so I actually pushed it forward an hour since it always charges faster then it expects it to. I then drive to work which brings SOC down to maybe 60%, go to lunch, then go home and I'm usually less then 20%. I rarely charge to 100%, and when I do, I try to time it so it's at 100% when I want to go. Hopefully this charging schedule will keep my batteries going a long time.

Azdre, do let us know the outcome with Nissan!

smkettner
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Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Wed May 09, 2012 9:44 pm

LEAFfan wrote:
smkettner wrote:So if you have no timer set and the blink turns off-on-off-on in the night you get several 100% charges?
I would assume if the timer was set there would be no issue because the timer would not start again once fully charged.
I would sort this out or dump that free blink that may cost you a battery.
First off, the Blink will not charge if the timer is off on both the car and Blink. The Blink isn't the problem. It's all on how you set your timers. My advice is not to use the Blink timer, but to set your LEAF timer to the same time. For instance, I set my LEAF timer to 11AM and 11AM. Now, I can leave it plugged in for pre-conditioning as long as I remove the plug before 11AM. So overnight, it will not charge. It doesn't matter which times you choose, just choose two morning times the same. Also, with the timers set to the same time, anywhere you plug in, it will start charging.
OK maybe I don't understand the Blink. Although if no timer is set on the Leaf I thought it defaulted to just charging immediately to 100%. I assumed the Blink was just always on so you plug in and Leaf just charges to 100%. So I had thought if Blink reboots and brings power back on the Leaf would think it was just plugged in and start again charging to 100%. Apparently it does not do this...... except there are multiple messages that charging was interrupted or completed overnight.
azdre wrote:The thing that does concern me with this statement is that the Blink will sometimes (less now than it used to) just run a 2-5 minute charge in the middle of the night for no reason. I elect to get a text message when the car stops or completes charges and sometimes I'd wake up with 2 or 3 charge complete messages.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
RAV4 traded in for I-Pace Dec 2018

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EVDRIVER
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Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Wed May 09, 2012 10:10 pm

LEAFfan wrote:It won't matter where you are located. If you QC more than 6 times in a day or leave it in 122 degree heat for more than 24 hours, then you have a good chance of damaging the battery, not just losing capacity. Also, leaving it at 100% charge for long periods and topping it off when it's already over 80% may damage the pack and have it lose capacity. I'll say it again, these packs were tested extensively (simulated 8yrs/100K miles) here in the extreme heat, were QCd up to six times a day, and lost no more capacity than any other kind of charging. So, unless you have other info, the below 122 degree heat here will NOT be any worse on the capacity as where you are.

I'll take a pizza bet that simulated testing of aging does not match what actually happens to these packs in AZ. Not sure how they simulated 8 years of heating and cooling cycles with aging as they actually happen in the real world which is why it is called simulated. I have seen plenty of simulated battery test claims which never match the real world results.

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planet4ever
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Re: Lost a "high-voltage battery status" bar, down to 11

Thu May 10, 2012 1:00 am

smkettner wrote:So if you have no timer set and the blink turns off-on-off-on in the night you get several 100% charges?
I would assume if the timer was set there would be no issue because the timer would not start again once fully charged.
Your assumption that the LEAF timer would not restart is reasonable, given Nissan's concern about topping off, but I haven't found anything that states whether that is true or not. So for now I'm going to have to call it an assumption, not a fact.

You hinted at a mode that sounds like it might be more likely to cause a problem. The Blink has its own timers, which presumably (another assumption) work by cutting and restoring power to the LEAF. The LEAF Owners Manual does say that if power is lost and then restored, while the J1772 connection is maintained, the charger will automatically resume charging. So if the car is left unused but plugged in for days or weeks, and the Blink has an active timer, then it seems the effect could be a daily topping off. Each day when the power is restored the LEAF might decide that the battery charge is a tiny bit below 100% due to very slight losses.

Ray
End of April 2013: Traded my 2011 SL for a 2013 S with charge pkg.

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