asimba2
Posts: 354
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:15 am
Delivery Date: 01 Jan 2014
Location: Northern CA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:28 pm

I wish we could rename this thread "2011-2012 Early Capacity Losses" as it gives the impression this rate of degradation occurs with all Leafs, when the 2013+ seem to hold up much better. Has there been any confirmed cases of 2013+ cars that have lost a capacity bar?

dhanson865
Moderator
Posts: 1496
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 7:12 am
Leaf Number: 16156
Location: Tennessee

Re: Early Capacity Losses for 2011, 2012, 2013 Leafs - was d

Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:51 pm

asimba2 wrote:I wish we could rename this thread "2011-2012 Early Capacity Losses" as it gives the impression this rate of degradation occurs with all Leafs, when the 2013+ seem to hold up much better. Has there been any confirmed cases of 2013+ cars that have lost a capacity bar?
yes and it was over a year ago!

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=16467" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I have a 2013 Leaf SV. Delivered 6/18/13. In late March of this year (2014), I noticed I have already lost one capacity bar at about 4000 total miles, approximately 200 hours of total operating time, only about 9 months old.
I am using the 120V Level 1 charger than came with the car; only charge to 80%. The Leaf is kept in the garage when not in operation. I live in the North Texas area.

Leaf Number: 411131
Garaged Location: Plano, Texas
Purchased New/Dealer - Courtesy Nissan
Ordered May 2, 2013
Production Month May 2013
Delivered/picked up: June 18, 2013
Mileage on delivery: 9
When lost 1st battery capacity bar:
approx 4000 miles
approx 200 operating hours
If he/she is still driving that Leaf I'd expect them to lose the 2nd bar any day now.

I'm sure if we had a 1 bar loser in 2014 we will have tons of 2013s losing bars this summer in 2015.

We might be able to restrict the title to "2011, 2012, 2013 only" given enough data but that will have to wait until we get our first 1 bar loser made in 2014 or a considerable wait until summer or fall of 2016 to be sure the 2014 Leafs are more heat resistant.

btw what part of that Leaf number do we put in the battery loss wiki? Last 5 digits? Is there a typo in that leaf number?
Last edited by dhanson865 on Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Blue 2012 Leaf 195/65/15 tires, 15" Rims
Silver 2012 Leaf 16" stock wheels
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index. ... acity_Loss
(efficiency 3.x KW vs 6.x KW)
please join Truedelta.com and input your repairs.

User avatar
Stanton
Forum Supporter
Posts: 2188
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:56 am
Delivery Date: 01 Sep 2011
Leaf Number: 7458
Location: Plano, TX
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was for 2011, 2012, 2013 Leafs

Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:05 pm

dhanson865 wrote:
I'm sure if we had a 1 bar loser in 2014 we will have tons of 2013s losing bars this summer in 2015.
Agreed: it took me almost 2 years to drop my first bar, and I live in Plano just like the above poster. Then things pick-up considerably due to the non-linear value of each capacity bar.
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/floor mats & window tint
12v LiFePO4 battery & FIAMM 74100 horns
Wet Okole seat covers (front)
Tor's low-power heater mod
2013 sun visor
3G modem upgrade
L2 EVSE Upgrade
Battery Pack replaced (Rev E) @51 months and 41k miles

User avatar
keydiver
Posts: 1080
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:04 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 16484
Location: Hobe Sound, Florida
Contact: Website

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:21 pm

asimba2 wrote:it gives the impression this rate of degradation occurs with all Leafs, when the 2013+ seem to hold up much better
I don't think enough time has gone by or enough data has been collected yet to be able to say "much better". Personally, I think its just wishful thinking, and only the Leafs with the 2015 Lizard battery are going to see a marked improvement. It took me almost 2 years (and 2 summers) of south Florida heat before I lost my first bar. If the 2013/2014 packs did get a slight tweak in chemistry, it may actually be unfortunate, as then it is even more unlikely that you will lose 4 bars by 5 years/60,000 miles. :?
2012 Glacier Pearl SL - Delivered December 8, 2011
10kW Solar PV for recharging!
2006 Prius with Hymotion 5kWh PHEV upgrade
Tesla 70D | Titanium Metallic | Matte Obeche Wood Décor| All Glass Panoramic Roof
Tesla Model 3 Pre-Ordered!

User avatar
DaveEV
Posts: 6245
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:51 pm
Location: San Diego

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:44 pm

gbshaun wrote:
drees wrote:.....you lost your 12th bar within a couple weeks of when I did (.. after 25 months of ownership), but you lost your 11th bar around June 2014 (about 9 months) but it took me until November 2014 to lose mine (about 14 months).
I continued to do everything I knew (80%, not leaving fully charged, no quick charges etc) between my loss of the 12th and 11th bars, so I don't think our habits made the difference.
Indeed only AFTER losing the 11th bar did i start to not focus on those things so much. Because of the reduced capacity I've now HAD to charge to 100% more often. My degradation rate doesn't seem to be any worse.
Thanks for the clarification.
gbshaun wrote:Curious what changed. I'm going with a hot summer.
But you experienced the same hot summer I did - I'm going with more freeway driving - nearly all my driving is surface or back roads at 40-55 mph - not much freeway driving, though lots of small elevation changes.
gbshaun wrote:FWIW In another thread, Opencar and I found we'd been mapping each other to a remarkable degree.

Opencar. Received 6/11 San Diego Coastal
1st bar lost at 27 months, 22K miles, Ahr=55.29
2nd bar lost at 37 months 33K miles, Ahr=51.54
3rd bar lost at 46 months, 41K miles, Ahr=47.47

GBShaun. Received 6/11 San Diego Coastal
1st bar lost at 26 months, 17k miles Ahr=55.50
2nd bar lost at 36 months, 25k miles Ahr=51.62
3rd bar lost at 45 months, 33k miles Ahr= 47.36
My data. Received 6/11 San Diego Coastal:

1st bar lost at 27 months, 22k miles, Ahr=55.25
2nd bar lost at 41 months, 34k miles, Ahr=51.56
Still have my 3rd bar at 46 months, 38k miles, Ahr=50.27

Both of you lost your 2nd bar in between Sept -> June, hardly a hot time of year for San Diego. Both of you are losing about 0.4 Ah / month consistently from the start assuming that you started with ~66 Ah. But since my first bar I'm losing under 0.3 Ah / month. Now I am working in east county where it's hotter now, but I doubt that I'll catch up. I'm still only charging to 100% about 3 days/week on a 5 am end timer.

lukati
Posts: 288
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:23 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Dec 2011

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:44 pm

Joining the club. Lost my first bar today at 39055 miles. Bought the car in early December 2011. Always garaged, babied to no end, no quick charging, charged to 80% only. I kept a list of the number of times I had charged to 100%, but gave that up after two years or so. Probably no more than ~30 charges to 100% total. Living in Chicago.

asimba2
Posts: 354
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:15 am
Delivery Date: 01 Jan 2014
Location: Northern CA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:56 am

keydiver wrote:
I don't think enough time has gone by or enough data has been collected yet to be able to say "much better". Personally, I think its just wishful thinking, and only the Leafs with the 2015 Lizard battery are going to see a marked improvement.
I would disagree based on the Leafspy results that are posted here. The 2013+ seem to be holding up much better after two years than the early models.

User avatar
TomT
Posts: 10647
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:09 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: California, now Georgia
Contact: Website

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:10 am

Agreed. There were no chemistry or battery changes in the 2013 that would led to it being any better than a 2011 or 2012...
keydiver wrote:I don't think enough time has gone by or enough data has been collected yet to be able to say "much better". Personally, I think its just wishful thinking, and only the Leafs with the 2015 Lizard battery are going to see a marked improvement.
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
2019 Model 3; LR, RWD, FSD, 19" Sport Wheels, silver/black; built 3/17/19, delivered 3/29/19.

QueenBee
Posts: 1564
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:14 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 2062
Location: Bellevue (Seattle), WA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:38 am

TomT wrote:Agreed. There were no chemistry or battery changes in the 2013 that would led to it being any better than a 2011 or 2012...
keydiver wrote:I don't think enough time has gone by or enough data has been collected yet to be able to say "much better". Personally, I think its just wishful thinking, and only the Leafs with the 2015 Lizard battery are going to see a marked improvement.
TomT, could you cite your source. AFAIK there have been no formal releases from Nissan that say either way but the internal murmurs seem to be that there were modifications which are believed to be improvements.

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 6419
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:06 pm

QueenBee wrote:AFAIK there have been no formal releases from Nissan that say either way but the internal murmurs seem to be that there were modifications which are believed to be improvements.
From here:
RegGuheert wrote:Some notes on the 2013 battery:

- The module case was modifiied to reduce weight and materials used. They claimed a 30 kg weight reduction for the LEAF battery just from that change.
- The changes to the 2013 battery module chemistry were mainly intended to reduce cost. (There has been some mention of improvements in thermal capabilities, but the battery experts did not confirm that. They indicated there may be small changes in battery characteristics, but weight and cost were the two major changes.)
- The 2013 battery modules are compatible with the 2012/2012 LEAFs.
That said, I don't believe battery changes always occur at changes in the model year. In other words, I don't think we can say that all MY2013 LEAFs use the same battery chemistry.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

Return to “Problems / Troubleshooting”