QueenBee
Posts: 1564
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:14 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 2062
Location: Bellevue (Seattle), WA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sun Apr 26, 2015 2:20 pm

RegGuheert wrote:
QueenBee wrote:AFAIK there have been no formal releases from Nissan that say either way but the internal murmurs seem to be that there were modifications which are believed to be improvements.
From here:
RegGuheert wrote:Some notes on the 2013 battery:

- The module case was modifiied to reduce weight and materials used. They claimed a 30 kg weight reduction for the LEAF battery just from that change.
- The changes to the 2013 battery module chemistry were mainly intended to reduce cost. (There has been some mention of improvements in thermal capabilities, but the battery experts did not confirm that. They indicated there may be small changes in battery characteristics, but weight and cost were the two major changes.)
- The 2013 battery modules are compatible with the 2012/2012 LEAFs.
That said, I don't believe battery changes always occur at changes in the model year. In other words, I don't think we can say that all MY2013 LEAFs use the same battery chemistry.
Depending on what one includes in cost that may include reducing warranty claims by decreasing capacity at a lower rate than previous ones but that's just my wishful thinking.

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keydiver
Posts: 1080
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:04 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 16484
Location: Hobe Sound, Florida
Contact: Website

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:26 pm

QueenBee wrote:Depending on what one includes in cost that may include reducing warranty claims by decreasing capacity at a lower rate than previous ones but that's just my wishful thinking.
I guess that all depends on where you live. As I said in another post, those 2013 tweaks that slowed the degradation may actually be bad news for 2013/2014 owners in hot climates who might have just barely qualified for a new Lizard battery if they had the older chemistry, but now they won't. The NEC paper referenced elsewhere doesn't really indicate that any of the tweaks were to fix the heat degradation issue, just anode/cathode degradation from acid damage, if I recall. If I lived in a hot climate, which I do, I would much rather have the 2015 Lizard chemistry. For you northerners, the 2013 tweaks look really great! :)
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DesertDenizen
Posts: 399
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:23 am
Delivery Date: 11 Sep 2014
Leaf Number: 314507
Location: Tucson

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:47 pm

If I lived in a hot climate, which I do, I would much rather have the 2015 Lizard chemistry. For you northerners, the 2013 tweaks look really great!

I live in Tucson and have a 2015 SL. My dealer who did my lease said she never heard of Lizard battery. Just what is it, and what does it do? Thanks so much.
Fully charged by photo voltaic system.
Nov 9 2014 got my 2015 lease, SL. My third Leaf. Tucson AZ. 5,500 miles, 5.2 long term m/kwh. Let us see if the 'lizard' battery does better than my 2011, which lost a capacity bar at 6,771 miles.

Rauv
Posts: 127
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:04 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2012
Leaf Number: 19000
Location: Twin Cites, MN

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:56 pm

You mean you didn't read the previous 720 pages?!
2013 Cayenne SL [70 months][45000 mi][11 bar]
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DesertDenizen
Posts: 399
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:23 am
Delivery Date: 11 Sep 2014
Leaf Number: 314507
Location: Tucson

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:33 pm

Rauv wrote:You mean you didn't read the previous 720 pages?!
Lots of them. But there is a separate thread on Lizard batteries, but it only discussed when they would be installed. Not a word on what they are, or what they do.
Fully charged by photo voltaic system.
Nov 9 2014 got my 2015 lease, SL. My third Leaf. Tucson AZ. 5,500 miles, 5.2 long term m/kwh. Let us see if the 'lizard' battery does better than my 2011, which lost a capacity bar at 6,771 miles.

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keydiver
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Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:44 pm

She probably never heard of it because it is MNL slang for the new battery chemistry that Nissan introduced in the 2015 Leaf. It is said to be much more heat tolerant, which was the BIG FAIL of the 2011/2012 chemistry, so someone nicknamed it the "Lizard" battery. ;)
2012 Glacier Pearl SL - Delivered December 8, 2011
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2006 Prius with Hymotion 5kWh PHEV upgrade
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DesertDenizen
Posts: 399
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:23 am
Delivery Date: 11 Sep 2014
Leaf Number: 314507
Location: Tucson

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:30 pm

keydiver wrote:She probably never heard of it because it is MNL slang for the new battery chemistry that Nissan introduced in the 2015 Leaf. It is said to be much more heat tolerant, which was the BIG FAIL of the 2011/2012 chemistry, so someone nicknamed it the "Lizard" battery. ;)
Well living in Tucson I can give reports. My first Leaf lost a bar at 6771 miles, so I will see how this one does. Still love the car, but I am glad I switched to a lease. Much more peace of mind.
Fully charged by photo voltaic system.
Nov 9 2014 got my 2015 lease, SL. My third Leaf. Tucson AZ. 5,500 miles, 5.2 long term m/kwh. Let us see if the 'lizard' battery does better than my 2011, which lost a capacity bar at 6,771 miles.

cwerdna
Posts: 10769
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Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:10 pm

^^^
I've started http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=19667" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; to collect '13-'14 Leaf capacity bar losers.

We'll need a '15+ (lizard battery) thread when one of those loses a bar. Hopefully, that should be at least 2+ years away, hopefully longer.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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abasile
Posts: 1922
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 20 Apr 2011
Location: Arrowbear Lake, CA

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:37 pm

Our LEAF lost its second bar a week ago, at about 54500 miles and four years of ownership. At this rate, it'll be at least another three years before it's down by "four bars". With less capacity, it's used for fewer longer drives, though we did manage to take it camping at Joshua Tree National Park in February and use the solar-powered DC charger (http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/57014" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). Generally, it stays on this cool mountain, in our cooler micro-climate, and gets parked in a driveway that's in shade most hours (with no shortage of sap dropping from the pines). Relatively ideal climate/environment for a 2011 battery.

One day, we hope, our LEAF will be joined by a "pre-owned" Tesla S or X.
2011 LEAF at 71K miles, pre-owned 2012 Tesla S 85 at 98K miles
LEAF battery: 9/12 bars and < 49 Ah (-28% vs. new)
Tesla battery: 250+ miles of range (-5% vs. new)

TimLee
Posts: 2811
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:40 am
Delivery Date: 17 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2026
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Re: Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:03 am

DesertDenizen wrote:... My dealer who did my lease said she never heard of Lizard battery. Just what is it, and what does it do? ...
Your dealer is clueless partly because Nissan never formally announced the heat resistant LEAF battery which people on MNL nicknamed Lizard.

They first communicated information about it in a dinner they hosted in Phoenix in August 2013.
Only MNL Nissan announcement about it being in 2015 LEAF was in June 2014 when they announced they would sell them as replacement pack with trade in of old pack.

Has slightly different chemistry with special trace amounts of chemicals that reduce capacity degradation rate.
Very good thread about battery testing and what can be significant impact of certain chemicals is at:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 96#p352669" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Has link to excellent training presentation from Professor Jeff Dahn of Dalhousie University.

Tim Lee
Chattanooga, TN

Man. Date: 03/10/11, VIN # 2026
Delivered 05-17-2011
Blue Ocean, 2011 SL-eTec

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